“No valid plans for the future can be made by those who have no capacity for living now. I have realized that the past and future are real illusions, that they exist in the present, which is what there is and all there is.”
-Alan Watts
*****
Not Tabata.
I like the simplified Google definition of the word — “the ultimate inexpressible nature of all things” — as a perfect encapsulation of baseball player development.
A simplified, modern day explanation of the concept of Tathata would be that “everything is what it is.”
Pirates fans have been conditioned to look to the “future” for years. I won’t say that this site hasn’t played a big role in the last decade-plus in leading that thinking. The team being horrible for years has helped as well. When you’re watching a losing team year-after-year as your escape from the chaos of life, and all you see is more chaos, it makes you wonder why you invested anything in this to begin with.
It’s like going to a really bad movie. You paid for this. When you get a chance to watch a baseball team win, it’s like watching a Marvel movie. You can’t even think about what is happening in front of your eyes, because there are so many Spider-Men springing into action. On the other hand, when you watch a bad team commit errors, and leave men on base — deflating every possible good moment — well, it gets to a point where you don’t even want to watch another DC movie. You don’t even care about the well-known characters and the potential they should have.
*****
The Pittsburgh Pirates open this week with the future.
This very much is the present.
Quinn Priester takes the mound tonight for the Pirates, with the 2019 first rounder making his Major League debut. Priester will be joined by Endy Rodriguez and Liover Peguero.
That trio will join Henry Davis, Nick Gonzales, Jared Triolo, and Carmen Mlodzinski, who have all slowly made their way to the majors over the last month.
In my column on Tathata and the Present Day Grades of the Pirates Position Players, I noted how few starters or potential starters there have been on the team this year. The Pirates have been trying to win by starting a lot of players who would be bench options on contenders.
Today’s callups will bring three players who could finish the 2023 season as starters the Pirates can build around. They join other recent arrivals who give the team a higher floor to develop from.
I’ll tell you why I like this group and their chances more than previous Pirates rebuilds: The combined energy.
I don’t think we’ve seen an influx of talent like this all at once. The promotions of Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker, Pedro Alvarez, and Starling Marte were staggered across many years. The group that arrived in 2016-17 arrived as most of those veterans from the first group were on their way out.
The Pirates are winning at a .323 rate since their 20-8 start. That rate, over the entire season, would make them the third worst team in baseball. They lost to one of the two worst teams in baseball during this stretch. The reason Pirates fans have been looking to the “future” is because every night displayed growing proof that the present team was not going to win in the “future” without help.
Help has arrived. And it has arrived all at once.
We’re going to see the team that Ben Cherington has been building. This isn’t going to be a consistent team, by any means, but it now has enough players with the potential for good results on any given night that it will be exciting to watch on any given night. I don’t think the rest of this season will be as easy as listing a lineup, so let’s look at the individuals.
ENDY RODRIGUEZ
Positions: C, 1B
Present Grade: 45+
“Future” Grade: 60
How Acquired: One of five players acquired in the Joe Musgrove trade, Rodriguez could close out a win tonight catching David Bednar, another player from that trade. This is already the type of return you hope for from that situation.
What to Expect: Endy is worth the price of admission. Even watching him in Altoona last year, he was always involved in every play on both sides of the game. He’s a high-energy player who will find a way to make plays — either with his arm and quick moves behind the plate, or his advanced hand-eye coordination at the plate. Don’t expect it all to arrive at once in the big leagues. Rodriguez doesn’t need to do much to exceed what we’ve seen from Austin Hedges. He’ll be an upgrade in the present, even if there is more potential in the “future”. I don’t give higher than 45+ to new callups for their present grade, but Rodriguez could quickly move into the territory of someone you’d be comfortable starting on a nightly basis. Like this next player…
HENRY DAVIS
Positions: RF, C
Present Grade: 50
“Future” Grade: 60
How Acquired: Davis was the first overall pick in the 2021 MLB draft.
What to Expect: There are two key things that really stand out to me about Davis. The first is his confidence at the plate. His approach just screams that he’s up there to do damage. Full of armor, with a massive swing that will pull baseballs beyond the north side notch, it’s safe to say that Davis is going to hit in the present and future. He’s playing in right field, where he’s passable defensively, and could improve. The main thing I like is his ability and drive to improve quickly. His catching will be the most uncomfortable to watch of the trio that includes Hedges and Rodriguez. His ability and drive to learn quickly means he’s not going to leave us watching the same catching experience over and over again. I could see the Pirates working him in at least one game a week, and him using that to gain a lot more comfort behind the plate in the majors by the end of the season.
NICK GONZALES
Positions: SS, 2B
Present Grade: 50
“Future” Grade: 55+
How Acquired: Gonzales was the first draft pick under Ben Cherington, taken seventh overall in 2020.
What to Expect: I’ve been higher on Gonzales than most, despite his high strikeout rate and invisible walk rate. He’s changing his hitting approach, and we’re watching it. He’s got some of the best hand-eye coordination and bat speed in the system, but had an approach that was more “see the ball, hit the ball”. The MLB game is no longer that way, and while it may never have been, the odds of success in covering the entire plate are slim. Gonzales has been learning how to narrow his zone of attack, while also showing aggression early if the ball is in that zone. He’s getting a lot of strikes and swinging at a lot of them. He’s making hard contact, but it’s not consistent. He’s had a lot of swings over breaking pitches, or hits into the ground with an uppercut swing. The hand/eye and bat speed will keep him productive as he adjusts at the MLB level, while also giving him a better chance than most to develop into a two-way starter-quality middle infielder.
LIOVER PEGUERO
Positions: 2B, SS
Present Grade: 45+
“Future” Grade: 55+
How Acquired: Peguero was acquired with Brennan Malone for Starling Marte in the first trade under Cherington.
What to Expect: This is a very similar situation to Gonzales. Peguero’s hand/eye and bat speed might be better than Gonzales. His drive to be in the majors has been shown on and off the field. He switched from a white to a yellow sleeve on his glove arm, after a conversation with Oneil Cruz about what he would wear in Pittsburgh one day. On the field, he’s hit for a .786 OPS in Altoona, and more recently, an .889 OPS with Indianapolis over 30 plate appearances. He might have a similar experience as Gonzales, where the overall results show caution, but the on-field results show flashes of promise. He worked a lot up the middle with Gonzales the last few years, so having them together will add comfort to the middle infield defense.
JARED TRIOLO
Positions: 3B, SS, 2B, 1B
Present Grade: 50
“Future” Grade: 55+
How Acquired: Triolo was drafted in the third round of the 2019 draft, the final under Neal Huntington.
What to Expect: When Ke’Bryan Hayes returns, the Pirates will have an interesting decision to make with Triolo. He can play all over the infield, as well as all over the outfield. He’s been outstanding at third base so far, showing off the focus that made him a multi-year Gold Glove winner in the minors. I watched him last year in Altoona from the first base line. Triolo had his eyes locked on the pitcher until the pitch was thrown. His eyes then went to the plate and he went active. Every time. This is a difficult position to field, especially night after night with that level of focus. His offense has been positive right now, but I’d hesitate to place him higher than Hayes this early. Hayes broke out at the plate in September 2020, and hasn’t been able to replicate that over a full season, while producing some of the best defense in the game. It would be a lot to expect that same level of defense from Triolo and better offensive results. Triolo can play anywhere, so the Pirates can get creative in keeping him around.
QUINN PRIESTER
Positions: RHP
Present Grade: 45+
“Future” Grade: 55+
How Acquired: Priester was drafted in the first round of the 2019 draft, the final first round pick under Huntington. I’ll add that this scouting department has largely remained intact. Huntington oversaw the picks of Priester and Triolo, and that same group has been providing reports for every draft since.
What to Expect: Priester has not been dominant from a strikeout standpoint, due to a fastball that grades as fringe. It’s an easy pitch to hit, lacking movement. His curveball is elite, and his cutter can supplement the lack of a strong fastball by allowing him to pitch backwards. He’s a smart pitcher who is adaptable. I think he will develop in a similar way to Mitch Keller, eventually adding to or adjusting his pitch approach until he locks in what will work against MLB hitters. For now, expect him to be a back of the rotation guy who could give you a good start every other time.
CARMEN MLODZINSKI
Positions: RHP
Present Grade: 40+
“Future” Grade: 45+
How Acquired: Mlodzinski was drafted with the 31st overall pick of the 2020 MLB draft.
What to Expect: The potential for an above-average fastball and above-average slider gave Mlodzinski a quick path to the majors as a reliever. He’s lacked control, and doesn’t have a strikeout pitch, though his slider has been difficult to hit. While his pitches could both be above-average in the future, Mlodzinski hasn’t consistently shown that in his first 12 innings, with control being an issue. He has already received work as an opener, and with the Pirates’ rotation in shambles, he should have plenty of opportunity to get more experience to improve his stuff.
WHO THEY JOIN
With Rodriguez behind the plate, Davis would be in right field, with Bryan Reynolds and Jack Suwinski joining him.
With Davis behind the plate, Rodriguez could go to first base, giving Carlos Santana a break. Outfield options include Triolo, Connor Joe, or the middle infield fallout.
What happens to Gonzales and Peguero when Cruz returns? Where does Triolo go when Hayes returns? How many veterans will the Pirates have in the designated hitter role? I’m assuming Andrew McCutchen and Ji-Man Choi would split the duties after the deadline.
The offense is young and inexperienced, but it’s exciting.
Reynolds. Cruz. Hayes. Suwinski. McCutchen. Rodriguez. Davis. Gonzales. Peguero. Triolo.
That’s ten players before you get to Ji-Man Choi, Connor Joe, or someone to develop properly off the bench in the majors like Tucupita Marcano or Ji Hwan Bae. Both of those players have been put into bigger situations than they could seem to handle this year.
The pitching is still a question mark. Mitch Keller has emerged as a top of the rotation option. Johan Oviedo is establishing himself as a reliable starter for the back of the rotation, with a chance for more. Priester doesn’t have anyone blocking him for a starting spot. Osvaldo Bido and Mlodzinski are the biggest candidates for innings of the remaining group, especially if Rich Hill is traded at the deadline. I would expect them to be joined by Roansy Contreras and Luis Ortiz in the final months.
Keller is the leader. Oviedo is comfortably in the starting five, and Priester could quickly give them a third reliable long-term starter. From here, how many of Bido, Mlodzinski, Contreras, or Ortiz will make that same Oviedo-jump in the final two months to join the first three guys? The pitching, to me, is a bigger need than the hitting. There are some interesting arms to watch develop, and they should see better run support each night.
+ postsTim is the owner, producer, editor, and lead writer of PiratesProspects.com. He has been running Pirates Prospects since 2009, becoming the first new media reporter and outlet covering the Pirates at the MLB level in 2011 and 2012. His work can also be found in Baseball America, where he has been a contributor since 2014 and the Pirates' correspondent since 2019.
Skenes officially signed.
sounds like skenes is in pittsburgh now. signing should be coming shortly!!
It’s hard to know what to say about the Pirates anymore. It’s all been said many times. Just when you think it can’t possibly get any worse, it gets worse.
I still think, again maybe it’s only hope but the two get confused when it comes to the Pirates, most of these young guys have the potential to be good major league players if put in positions to succeed. The Pirates seem to have perfected a “set ‘em up to fail” technique either intentionally or by chance.
I’m not a GM but have played and watched baseball since I was 10 years old (and believe me that’s a long time) and simply cannot comprehend some of the things they’ve done recently.
Spend the #1 overall draft pick on a catcher because of the value of that position and talk about developing his skills behind the plate. You’d think they’d do everything possible to try to assure the top pick has all the advantages they need but instead they stick him in right field, a position he’s never played, and expect him to succeed? Have these guys never played the game? Do they not realize that different positions require different skill sets that take years to learn and perfect and that having to work a lot learning a new position takes away from your ability to work on other parts of your game? Are they deliberately setting him up to struggle or are they just stupid?
I could list multiple other examples but what’s the point? This management team either has no idea what it’s doing, is intentionally sabotaging the rebuild or (and this is entirely possible) I’m completely wrong about the whole thing. I sincerely hope it’s the latter because in all likelihood I don’t have enough time left on this planet to last through another rebuild. I’ve always said that I want to be around long enough to see the Pirates in the World Series again but am now realizing that might be asking for immortality.
Wait a second, just be happy Henry and the rest of the kids are here albeit 30 days late, or one month of wasted ML lump taking
Your very upset over Henry, maybe this will help
Alot of what you posted is not completely accurate
I have watched him play and followed his development since the day he was drafted. For you to post the Pirates have not worked with Henry enough behind dish is simply not true
When a raw backstop comes along under slot with 35+HR potential
you take him even though he has NEVER played another position his entire life
He’s been a Buc for 2 years and he’s in the Bigs because he is an athelete, with arm and speed and the work ethic to keep improving at both positions which they need from him, it will NOT require years for him to learn RF
2021- Aug-Sept of Draft year he had limited AB’s due to injuries
2022- For some reason, they started Endy, Hank and Gutierrez all
at High A Greensboro, which led to another frustrating year
He was blocked until Endy was promoted, injured again and then struggled at the plate as well as behind the dish in the Eastern League
They sent him to the AFL to make up for lost time. Let me tell you, I had my doubts Hank would ever be able to catch in the bigs
However, over the off season, month early to ST, which i attended, this guy was a completely different catcher. I mean he went from unwatchable in october to an emergency play. Iv’e seen Blake Sabol who beat out Henry for PT in the AFL sit behind the dish 35 times this year for SF
Today, Henry is the better Catcher, better OF better athelete period
Henry will catch in the BIGS. The days Endy plays 1B or DH, Hank goes behind the dish..Believe it or not,Henry needs more work in RF than he does behind the dish
I’m endorsing any way to keep both bats in the line up daily
Abrahan Gutierrez is the silent Gem, strong def, eye for the zone
and free’s up the both of them while also limiting the risk of being in harms way
I understand your frustrations, they are moving infielders around for the hell of it, why? If Gonzo is an ave 2B, stay there and become above ave
Bae is below ave, he stays there and should get pounded with reps
They did to Peguero last year, kid is in the first real slump
offense and def of his career, they move him from SS to 2B
Boy, do I sympathize. I experienced 1960, 1971, and 1979, and like you, hope for another. Of course, the road to contention is bumpy and exasperating but this management team has succeeded in damping my enthusiasm. Finally, they sign two players to long-term contracts. Immediately following these transactions, both players mysteriously forget how to hit and one of them can’t stay on the field. Ballyhooed prospects reach the majors and can’t pitch or hit. Last night, I didn’t expect the Pirates to overwhelm a fine Cleveland team, but I didn’t expect them to be overwhelmed. They don’t hit, most of them can’t pitch, some of them can field, and last but most frustrating, they don’t seem to play sound baseball. My patience is frazzled, and I can’t watch them past a few innings.
This is a long build of a small market team with limited payroll that can afford few personnel mistakes. If Bob missed on BC, we’re going to know in the next two years. We already conclusively know BC missed on Shelton, however he was a decent players manager for 4 100-loss seasons or equivalent. We know Haines Is not the right hitting coach. Marin should also be let go along with Meccage. Is John Baker the right guy to lead the minors? Travis as President knows nothing about baseball. So the keys are in BC’s hand,
Really comes down to whether Bob can surround himself with some outside counselors to know whether BC can complete the build.
I don’t disagree with any of the questions you pose. My confusion is the timing of the questioners’. Shouldn’t these be questions for the beginning of the process? Wouldn’t the questions be asked continually, so that changes, presumably improvements, be made along the way? I don’t see any evidence that a ‘shake-up’ of any kind, or of any part of the organization, has been made or is in the immediate future. So far, the results of the rebuild and the future forecast are very minimal, at best.
Having Henry Davis spend most of the season in double A primarily as a catcher, with a sip fo coffee at triple A and then not letting him catch yet in the majors is baffling to me.
The other thing that I supported is drafting and trading for a ton of shortstops, with the reasoning that they are athletic enough to move to different positions. I am a little baffled that none have been moved to the oufield. If everyone reaches their potential, we might have eight good second basemen though.
Much of what they have done this season reeks of desperation, bringing up Peguero after 7 games at AAA, sticking Davis in RF, just to try to show us right now that Cherington didn’t waste that first overall pick, bringing up Gonzalez while he is still tinkering with his swing mechanics, bringing up Priester while he is still sorting out how to work his curve off his two fastballs and still trying to figue out how to be a pitch-to-contact guy most of the time, who can go for the Ks with his four-seamer and curve part of the time.
It tells me that if there is no significant improvement next year, Cherington’s head is on the block. We shall see, but the lease on PNC is up in 2030, and if I owned the team, I would seriously consider moving it, purely from the point-of-view of potential revenue, though it would be hard in this era to convince tax-payers in another location to finance a sweetheart deal on a stadium like PNC. If Cherington fails top produce something resembling an MLB team, time may be running out for the Pirates in Pittsburgh, there may only be one more shot at keeping the team in town.
I think a big reason Q is up is the injuries to the staff. They’ve been hit pretty hard, and he’s healthy.
They’re not gonna move the team.
Move the team!!!!! Sometimes I question why I peruse these boards.
All I am saying is that Pittsburgh is the smallest market in the MLB, and it is not close. There are numerous cities that do not have a franchise where the potential revenue is higher: San Antonio, El Paso, Indianapolis (which would be a very logical move), and Charlotte would lead the list. Nashville has a group organized pushing for an MLB franchise, and they just hired Mattingly, I think, to lead it and probably be their first GM. If the MLB does not expand and include Nashville, there will be a push to relocate an MLB franchise there, and the logical choice would be the smallest market team… now that Oakland is moving to Las Vegas.
Power Ranking All 30 MLB Teams by Market Size | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report
I’m guessing this is fairly accurate and they have quite a few teams that are smaller markets than Pittsburgh
Based on population data, the PIttsburgh region, which would include Allegheny and 6 adjacent counties is the 27th largest metropolitan area in the U.S. according to Census data from Wikipedia. This is pretty generous, since the far north of Butler county (where I once lived) and the outlying regions of Beaver and Westmoreland are pretty far from PIttsburgh.
The issue is more than population, however. It is the general price index in the local economy. Pittsburgh is cheap compared to almost every other U.S. city, and so ticket prices, local TV deals, and so forth are discounted. What is more, demographic pressures in places like Charlotte, Nashville, San Antonio. and El Paso cause prices and inflation to run hot there… which allows for higher revenue potential.
I am not saying the Pirates are going to move (it would be a hard sell to the MLB powers that be and the Pirates are unlikely to get a sweetheart deal like PNC anywhere else). I am saying that, if I owned the team, from a purely business standpoint, I would look into the revenue potential of other venues and consider it. It would not be the first time the Pirates threatened to leave Pittsburgh.
Interesting. Far north of Butler county. I have a camp on the Allegheny just south of Emlenton. Butler county is like a mile away. The school district down there is Allegheny Clarion Valley and is the only school district in the state to have 4 counties – Venango, Clarion, Butler and Armstrong.
Apparently we were neighbors. I have been to Emlenton multiple times. I grew up in East Brady, before moving to the city in my teens.
You around Jim Kelly’s age?
No.. but my uncle is. He was in the same grade, and they keep in touch.
It is a shame about Kelly. No one wanted to win more than he did, and no one took it harder than he did after losing those Super Bowls. He is, by all accounts, a really nice guy and as honest a man as you will ever meet.
Because how else would you know that the team is leaving the city asap? I heard topeka needs a new team
Not quite “sale the team!” But close…
There is some talent on the team, at least on the hitting side, enough to be competitive (not necessarily great… but not embarassing). I don’t like Cherington for one hundred different reasons, but he has managed to acquire a lot more talent in his first four years than Huntington did in his final four (which is a very low bar… I admit).
I would give these guys a chance, and I would love to see what they could do with a prospect-oriented group of coaches and managers who are much better than the present mess of Haines, Morin, and Shelton. There are numerous coaches and managers out there who would be better than this crew of no-names and do-nothings. Eddie Perez, who is bi-lingual, for example, is still waiting down in Atlanta for his chance to manage a big-league team. We’ve just seen what Wes Johnson could do in one year Skenes, who had mostly played catcher and first base. It seems to me that if you want to have a prospect-first, small market approach, you would find one of these marquis college pitching coaches to handle your pitcher development.
While the Pirates do swing and miss on player evaluation, it seems, more often than they should, all major league teams miss more often than succeed. I think the problem really lies in development and at the MLB level. Many of these guys have the talent to play in the MLB, they just arrive unprepared to do so. Peguero, for example, is up too early IMO.
Yeah, well, that’s just like your opinion, man.
What talent has Ben brought in other than Suwinski?
NH lead the 2018 Pirates to a 82-79 record and the talent on that squad is miles ahead of the clown show BC assembled.
Yeah… it’s my opinion, but it is one shared by Fangraphs and most of the baseball commentariat. Most everyone agrees that most of these guys that the Pirates have called up recently are top prospects. Are they really? I think it is hard to know given the Pirates haphazard approach to player development and position training and the general level of unpreparedness these guys seem to have to play baseball at the highest level.
I don’t like Cherington, not even a little, and I did not like Huntington, but I do admit that we often underestimate Huntington. He was among the first to embrace the idea of “pitching-to-contact” and using infield shifts as a defensive strategy. In this sense, there was an “organizational philosophy” that was far-better thought out than Cherington’s nostalgia for the Boston Red Sox and Oakland As of the early 2000s and his clumsy attempts to recreate those teams in Pittsburgh with a third-tier development staff. The fundamental problem with Huntington was his hard-headed insistence that every pitcher should and could be a pitch-to-contact guy.
I know it’s been only one game but looking at Fangraphs preseason top prospects ranking they had (excluding Johnson)
Endy 22
Davis 38
Ortiz 77
Priester 108
To think we’ve seen all these guys this year is sort of sobering
Well that’s unfortunate.
I know this is the Pirates and Nutting but I really have to wonder how long Shelton, Cherrington and Travis Williams can all have jobs?
I think Shelton should already be gone. Cherrington probably too but guessing he gets much more time with Nutting.
Just incredible and I’m not basing this off of one game. The amount of ammunition Cherrington had in the draft and trades has yielded this???
That’s what it looks like when an MLB team plays a AAA team. Cherington has made quite the f*cking mess here. What a disgrace. This clown couldn’t even hold Huntington’s beer and I’m guessing NH and Cle’s front office was laughing the entire game.
At least I have the Righteous Gemstones!
I’m on the final few episodes of BCS, so I turned to that right quick. This season has gotten depressing, more so than the last two.
You watch Gemstones?
Saul is fantastic!
No I haven’t, it’s on my list though! The cast looks fantastic.
From Triblive:
“Shelton said Rodriguez will get the bulk of playing time at catcher, with Austin Hedges playing a couple days a week and potentially in late-game situations because of his elite defense.”
You have a potential star now behind the plate, and you will consider subbing him for “elite defense” on a team playing .300 baseball.
Endy is not going to be a star. Why are you guys doing this to yourselves?
I said potential star. I didn’t say he would be a star. My perspective on this may be different than others. My son played college football for a P5 school and helped Alabama win a NC in 2020 serving on the coaching staff. I’ve learned a lot from him as a player who developed to a level, and watching him develop high level players. I wasn’t willing to pigeonhole Endy one way or the other, because of what I’ve seen and learned It’s been said that Endy has the ability to be very good defensively. He has hit well at every level. He can play multiple positions, demonstrating athleticism. He is young and still developing. Here’s what I don’t know: does he have the focus and desire to be great at the highest level? Does he have the pain tolerance required both mentally and physically? Does he have the intelligence required? Does he have high level “compete?” I can go on. Bottom line, I don’t know. I can be the smartest guy in the room and simply say that these guys won’t be stars, because most simply won’t. Endy will tell his story.
Your opinion is not shared by literally the entire industry, hence why he was ranked in the top 25 in all of baseball. All those guys are expected to become stars…..and while they may not, you sure as hell don’t know better than them
You are absolutely insane if you think “literally the entire industry” is calling him a “star”.
I could get on board with that observation, but I certainly agree with the overall point (needlessly inserting Hedges into games late for defense).
Again, I think Shelty is just a mouthpiece for Cherington. BC told Shelty that he’s calling up Endy and this is how we’re going to use Hedges.
It’ll be moot here in a couple of weeks when Hedges is traded.
Where’s the impact? I like this kid but don’t see a single plus tool.
Obviously Tim disagrees as he’s been talking about his bat being ready all season.
Why are you so fucking offended that someone could have a different opinion?
Grow up.
I was surprised by how small he still looks. I feel like people are thinking he can have a Russ Martin impact and that’s setting up for disappointment.
Guys in the thread who saw him play for the first time last night getting butthurt for me sharing the same exact take as FanGraphs.
https://www.fangraphs.com/players/endy-rodriguez/25332/stats?position=C
You can be a perfectly serviceable big league starter without a plus tool, and that’s by far the most likely expectation for Endy Rodriguez. This is a completely banal take.
You must have great baseball instincts to come to that conclusion after his first MLB game.
Instead of being an asshole you could of course argue the merit of your disagreement.
Since you chose to call me an asshole you can go F**K yourself.
once again, distinct lack of baseball content here. strong argument you must have.
OK sonny boy I’ll play along with you.
Rodriguez minor league stats
Avg. .296
OBP .386
SLG. .509
OPS .895
And which tools are you arguing will be plus?
Those minor league stats do not translate to a single plus metric equivalent; not batting average, power, speed, or defense.
I guess we will not know on how they translate until he plays a few seasons. No one knows for sure but my gosh give him a chance.
jesus dude, relax. of course he has a chance!
Hey I’m good I just initially replied to you when you said by far the most likely result for him will be a serviceable player. I disagree and believe he’ll be more than that. That’s all!
Hilarious exchange!
There is minor league data as well.
IDK I thought his minor league data was better than average.
Exit velos aren’t great.
he has an average mlb exit velocity. not that bad
Arraez does just fine hitting the ball 90 MPH consistently. Who gives a crap about exit velocity. KeBryan has taught us how useless that stat is
My God, exit velo mean quite a bit. If exit velos were around when Newman was drafted, he never would’ve went Rd 1.
Man, you come in here all full of piss and vinegar.
I’m not the one posting negative crap on someone after his first day…..I’m defending him. Might want to look somewhere else for piss and vinegar. and exit velo was around when Newman was drafted, noone cared because he wasn’t drafted for power.
Statcast came out in 2015, the same year Newman was drafted, but they didn’t have data on college kids. All 30 MLB Stadiums had the technology to track exit velo.
It’s not useless, and there are exceptions to every stat.
exit velo by itself without GO/FO rate and launch angle average is useless. Its like looking at the unemployment rate without looking at jobless claims and job openings to determine the labor market. Anything incomplete is useless.
I’ve got news for you champ. There aren’t many individual stats that are complete, and even those that strive to be (WAR for example) have their critics.
Just a thought – I totally agree with all the negativity in the comments. Wilbur pointed out they’re playing at a .318 clip since the hot start. Which is just, unreal.
I never wanted this long rebuild. But we’re here now. And all the young guys have 1 year of service time or less. Almost all of the top prospects are at the big league club now. I think we should need to hold our disappointment and judgement. I know we collectively ran out of optimism 15 years ago, but lets give them a chance. We’ve never had this many top prospects with key roles. Give peace a chance, right? Lets go Bucs?
anyone whom expected these guys to come up and dominate just isn’t very smart. we should hope for a team that, after the allstar break in 2024 plays .500 or better and then is a above .500 team from that point forward in 2025, 2026,2027. Using our depth in areas like 2b to trade for pieces we need to reach the playoffs.
i’d have more hope if the mlb coaches weren’t shit
Eloquently stated my friend lol
thank u =)
Well, that went about as bad as it could have gone…
Priester was alright. He has potential, but he really needs to go back to the lab and come out with a fastball.
I was talking to my coworker, who pitched in college and he said he threw 87-88 mph. He’s 5’10” He said, his teammate about the same height threw the same velocity. But this kid was in the minors a few years later and he was throwing 98. They know how to coach it.
It’s alarming at how many fastballs have gone backwards this year: Q, Luis, Ro. How does that happen without injury? I’d understand if the velocity was wobbly for a few starts, but it’s constant with those guys. And with Ro, it feels mechanical which then begs the question…what took so long to diagnose that?
hire tread for the whole org
Solometo took the step forward with the help of Tread. In the article I read, he was sore and wanted to add velocity. “In the first 5 seconds” they diagnosed something wrong mechanically. Solometo then said he wasn’t sore and added 6 mph on the fastball.
Would love to hear the Pirates answer that, in fact I would pay some of my hard earned money to hear an answer to that – great question
The last 2 bullpen games the pirates have 27 k’s in 54 possible outs.
wow
I noticed that just about all the other teams are signing their first round draft picks. With a Pirates going under slot on almost every other pick, is this what’s required to sign Skenes? If so get it done!
This probably has more to do with the true slotting of the top four or five picks. Langford just signed over slot at four, Boras will likely hold out to get Crews over slot at two. I would expect the Crews and Skenes deals to be very similar in terms of money with Boras pushing for an MLB deal. Not sure if that would affect Skenes negotiation, maybe they give him more money on an amateur deal to offset.
Teams are no longer allowed to sign draft picks to a MLB contract.
The Nats only have $9,077,000 left to give Crews. That’s including the 5% tax overage.
I’ve been a harsh critic of Quinn Priester, but last night he showed some good movement on pitches and good conviction early. I’d like to see more and hope he continues improvement. Derek Shelton is a poor manager, especially in game manager and it’s unfortunate that the extension came when it did because now there’s no changing for several years.
I fell asleep and couldn’t watch the game but the score… had a rough debut, huh.
As long as they continue to improve, everything’s alright. That’s what this season’s about!
As for the bats, no comments.
I’ve come to realize that this franchise might be hopeless. We all know where this franchise ranks in the annals of sports. When that heartbreaking season of 1992 ended, not in a million years did I think that things would be so bad for so long. I seriously remember saying to myself that we’ll likely need 5-10 years to be back as a championship contender. And look at this franchise today. An abysmal franchise from ownership to players. Those 3 wild card years were incredibly fun; however, this is a disaster of a sports franchise. So much so I seriously don’t think I can take it anymore. I try to laugh at times to mask the pain, but things are so bad that I can’t have any real hope. I just can’t. The owner and this FO are so incompetent, it’s frightening. This might even go down as the worst FO of all the rebuilds. And this manager and his sidekick hitting coach, might very well be the worst tandem in Pirates history. It’s just unfathomable to me that a franchise could be so bad top to bottom for the better part of 30 years.
A hobby might help.
Oh, I have plenty. I just have always been a passionate Pittsburgh sports fan and it’s truly terrible what this franchise has become. But maybe one day in our lifetime we’ll experience another championship.
Dude, I totally get it. I wasn’t kidding. I’ve been rebuilding an old car. When the team is sucking ass, I head to the garage. Fans deserve better. At least the Steelers and Pens try to win.
I’m over it haha. I hate this front office and management crew. They’re losers and tinkerers.
If one day could ever epitomize being a pirates fan…
Site Help needed: Can someone answer how to post comments when getting “Awaiting for approval” message and posts not being accepted. Reach out to TNBucs by email as he is locked out…….or post fix here. He has been unable to post for awhile. Thanks.
Maybe he got the 👢
TNBucs get the boot? No way, this is a log-on error that Tim can fix.
And it looks pretty bleak!
Priester looked good for a few innings but then struggled so we didn’t get the great starting performance we wanted but at least one thing remains as expected. The Pirates have a big fat feckin’ zero on the scoreboard again facing a bunch of relievers. Pathetic for sure but the real question is whether this team is completely hopeless.
I’m leaning towards completely hopeless. Not enough major leaguers on the roster and none of the callups are going to be impact players.
What have they done to my boys? :'(
With this loss, the Pirates will have played .318 baseball since the big start. But I’m sure the incompetents running the team saw everybody take big steps forward today.
This team plays like they’re going to have a new manager before they have a real winning streak.
Don Kelly, also known as our Bench Coach, who has been called for managerial interviews by 2 or 3 other ballclubs, is my first choice.
He is a lifetime Pittsburgh kid, 8 or 9 year MLB Career, and only about 8 years since he was an MLB Player himself. Solid roots in the community (if that ever meant anything to the Pirates), and something I also like is the fact he played a few years for Jim Leyland while he was a player in Detroit.
As the Bench Coach under Derek Shelton, he has been doing the job he was hired to do – support the Manager, build onfield and clubhouse relationships, and keep it positive. He’s a professional and is somebody I think can turn this around quickly!
The best players don’t always make the best managers. (see Steven Gerard).
Leland. What did he amount to? A double A catcher? When you have a guy who has to get by on his wits and who studies the game you maybe get a good teacher…
Those who can’t teach, they say. I think this is the Leland thing. What is it exactly that makes a good baseball man? Success, I suppose.
Don Kelly has been around. He’s had decent mentors. He’s had a taste of the majors. My thinking is that he might be the right guy.
Good to see you posting, Don.
Nutting will never buy out Sheltons contract and no real manager would want to manage here.
That would be fine with me. How about tomorrow?
Why even bother with starting pitchers anymore? What value is there in having one guy who can pitch 6-7 innings once every five days when you can just have 14 relievers alternate pitching 1-2 innings every game. It sure seems to work against the Pirates; of course virtually anything does.
Thankfully, I quit watching after Ramirez HR. Can’t take much more of this. No matter who puts on the uniform, this team usually can’t pitch, and never hits.
So far, in the tiniest of sample sizes, Rodriguez’s hitting reminds me of Austin Hedges. Peguero’s hitting reminds me of, well, Austin Hedges.
The whole lineup reminds me of Hedges.
Face it folks. As long as Nutting owns this team & Cherrinton is the GM the Pirates will suck.
Is Shelton the worst manager ever? He’s unbelievably bad. I’ve been trying to be optimistic and give the guy a shot, but I can’t anymore. This team is going to lose 100 games this year and I just don’t understand how you can do that after a 20-8 start.
It’s been 4 of the longest and bleakest years of this franchise! The talent is there, but we need somebody in the Managerial position that will lead and create a winning environment. Shelton is pitiful.
Priester will need to exorcise that one!
Not to beat a dead horse, but Reynolds didn’t start running hard on his grounder until he noticed the bobble. He still made it by a half of a step, but with all of those young guys,he could try to be a leader.
Nice to see a prospect take one for the team. Just like you always want to do with them in their big league debut.
I wondered why Priester was not pulled after 5, but the pitch count was probably still in the 60’s when he went out for the 6th. Count me as one of those lifetime baseball folks who would have pulled him after 5 and let him walk out of his first MLB start with a lot of pride.
Shelton?
The analytics probably said we were going to lose anyway so don’t waste more pitchers. Another example where analytics ignores the mental part of the game.
Exactly right! Should have been out after 5. Shelton is a dunce.
Priester was doing good through 5. Would have sent him back out too cause he had not thrown that many pitches. If he was yanked and the Pen gave up the runs then the complaints would have been that he should have left Priester in.
I disagree my friend. It wasn’t about the pitch count but just leaving your first ML start feeling good about yourself. His dumb ass manager saw otherwise.
Any true competitor would have been pissed off he got yanked early…feeling good about yourself, come on man!
They *love* to see their players face adversity which is just a euphemism for “experience losing baseball”.
Losing is what they definitely have down pat. You might call them expert losers.
Shelton loves to put or leave players in a position to fail.
Quinn fits right in with the non-Keller arms. Yeah the energy with this group is totally different (makes wanking motion).
Well, he was efficient if you look at pitch count 😉
Wtf were they thinking leaving him in so long?!
Shelton wanted to hang him out to dry. You know, nothing like protecting a young pitcher by letting him get pounded that first time out.
Right?! I mean bido gives up a walk and is gone but let’s let priester’s confidence get crushed since we will actually need him one day
The problem with contact pitchers is …… contact
Getting ugly.
“Getting”?
If there’s a possible bright side, maybe we found our opener, lol.
It could be worse than a 4 inning opener…
It got uglier faster than I could type.
made me laugh. nice gif
The future is the present. Poor.
The future looks much like the past. Can’t score because they can’t hit.
Hitting is contagious apparently! Offense looks lifeless again.
Welcome to the bigs, where weak ass breaking pitches get crushed.
Typical Pirate outcome, lose command, walk a batter, pitch to the middle of the plate, homerun, and we’re down two.
The home run pitch was down and in and not a bad one but these are major league hitters. Home runs are going to happen and are no big deal by themselves but lead off walks shouldn’t happen and are killers.
As you were responding, it happened again, except the home run was a double. Two walks, and they both scored. Cleveland has 3 runs on 2 hits.
Priester sucks, Endy can’t call a game. Tathata.
That’s funny. Neither is true imho in the long term. But way to boomerang “tabitha.”
Great use of the word.
2-0, an insurmountable deficit…
looks like Peguero needs to bend his knees in his batting stance
Sure would be nice if these guys could score some runs tonight. Getting very tired of watching a starter go out there and do his thing but get no run support.
buy low on Josh Bell for 2024?
What value does Josh Bell have? Bring Santana back first at least he can play first base.
Trending towards 81 pitch perfect game. I think my logic is on point.
Healthy version of nick kingham
Oh. eeee Oh.
TRIOLO
7:50 start I’m hearing
New Pirates Generation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZdikn6sf4