46.4 F
Pittsburgh
Friday, December 9, 2022

Pirates Discussion: Luis Ortiz Continues Hot Start

The Pittsburgh Pirates couldn’t carry Saturday’s victory into Sunday and found themselves on the wrong end of the scoreboard again.

It wasn’t all for naught, as unexpected rookie sensation Luis Ortiz continued to shine. Sunday afternoon he was only able to crack 100 MPH once, and only had the top 33 hardest pitches in the game. It appeared he was on a hard pitch count as Derek Shelton pulled him in the fifth inning with two outs and having only thrown 80 pitches. Ortiz would throw 4.2 IP in total, allowing only a single to first batter of the game to go along with an earned run, two walks and seven strike outs. That gives him seventeen strike outs to seven walks in his three starts covering 15.1 IP.

Unfortunately for Ortiz (and the Pirates in general), the bullpen has been cratering at season’s end. The lone earned run against Ortiz came when he was pulled in fifth with a runner on and two outs. Manny Banuelos walked the first batter he faced, and then gave up a first pitch three-run bomb to Patrick Wisdom.

David Bednar made an appearance in the sixth and it took 23 pitches, while allowing two singles and striking out two batters.

Bryan Reynolds tried to get things going with his 26th HR of the season in the bottom of the sixth to make it 3-1.

Duane Underwood Jr. came in for the seventh inning and had other plans — along with the defense — than staging a comeback. The first three batters reached base safely which included a RBI single. Then with runners on second and third and one out, Nelson Velazquez hit a grounder to a drawn in Oneil Cruz, who whiffed on the ball to let two more runs score for a 6-1 deficit. It was Cruz’s second error of the game and his 15th of the season. Underwood left after 15 pitches and one out after having allowed three runs, two earned.

Miguel Yajure replaced Underwood with one out in the seventh and finished off the game. Yajure threw 55 pitches across 2.2 innings with three hits, two runs (one earned), a walk and five strike outs. The second run came after a wild pitch was followed by Jason Delay’s second error of the game, and his 9th of the season.

With the game out of hand at 8-1 the Pirates offense pushed two more across the plate in the bottom of the ninth on sacrifice fly’s by Rodolfo Castro and Jack Suwinski for an 8-3 loss. The Pirates 97th of the season.

Reds @ Pirates

Time: 6:35 PM EST

Pirates Starter: Roansy Contreras (5-5, 3.68)

Reds Starter: Chase Anderson (2-3, 5.21)

Contreras Notes: Roansy Contreras will be making his 17th start of the season and looking to rebound after a rough outing against the New York Yankees. Contreras managed to strike out ten Yankees, but it also came with six earned runs through 4.2 IP.

UPDATE: Andujar arrives, Chavis and Allen gone

LINEUPS:

Pirates

Reds

1. TJ Friedl (L) LF
2. Jonathan India (R) 2B
3. Kyle Farmer (R) DH
4. Spencer Steer (R) 3B
5. Stuart Fairchild (R) CF
6. Aristides Aquino (R) RF
7. Matt Reynolds (R) 1B
8. Jose Barrero (R) SS
9. Chuckie Robinson (R) C

+ posts

Raised in Cranberry Twp, PA, Jeff attended Kent State University and worked in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, before moving to New Orleans in September of 2012. His background is as an Engineering Designer, but he has always had a near unhealthy passion for Pittsburgh sports. Hockey and Baseball are his 1A and 1B, combined with his mathematical background, it's led to Jeff's desire in diving into analytics. Jeff is known as Bucs'N'Pucks in the comments, and began writing for Pirates Prospects in 2022 after contributing so many useful bits of information in the comment section.

SUPPORT PIRATES PROSPECTS

Pirates Prospects has been independently owned and operated since 2009, entirely due to the support of our readers. The site is now completely free, funded entirely by user support. By supporting the site, you are supporting independent writers, one of the best Pittsburgh Pirates communities online, and our mission for the most complete Pirates coverage available.

Related articles

Subscribe
Notify of
112 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
PirateRican21

That slap hitting lead off man was productive today.

1979andCounting

Off topic- But worth mentioning. Tonight is 51st anniversary of Orioles having four 20-game winners in 1971. They had 78 complete games pitched. An amazing feat and a record never to be broken. Makes Judge’s HRs even more impressive than Maris, he sees fresh bullpen arms every game. Wasn’t the case in Maris’ day.

forkball

Maybe we should just play the Reds

TNBucs

Tonight clinches the season series–we’re 10-7 with two games to go!

Wilbur Miller

They appear to be very bad.

1979andCounting

And that’s why you keep giving Jack AB’s.
4-9 last 4 games, all extra base hits, sac fly, 4 walks, 7 ribeyes.

Last edited 2 months ago by 1979andCounting
PirateRican21

We need someone to claim one of the outfield spot, would love it if it’s him, his power and defense are appealing.

TNBucs

His home/road splits are remarkable. About a 600 point difference in OPS–I figured that had to start changing on this homestand but instead the split has grown.

Wilbur Miller

Even before today –

H — .956
R — .364

W………T……….F……….

PirateRican21

A new platoon, home/away players!

bucsws2014

His wRC+ is 164 at home and 4 on the road.

AdministrativeSky236

All star at home and stuck in the minors on the road

AdministrativeSky236

His home/road splits have to be one of the biggest differences in the last 10 years or so, he’s an all star when at PNC!

1979andCounting

Red Sox game just got tarp on field. There’s a big ad on tarp by L.L Bean. Why hasn’t Travis thought of that? Add another $100k to Bob’s revenue. It gets a lot of eyes both in stadium and on telecast. Briliant marketing!

Wilbur Miller

Bob would probably end up with an ad for a pawn shop.

docdon385

His own picture.

b mcferren

“where the bring you steak on an eight hundred degree stone…”

bucsws2014

Shenderovich, Shenderovich & Fishman. “We’ve got you covered!”

Gotta figure they must already be Nutting’s lawyer with the 25% not 40% thing.

Last edited 2 months ago by bucsws2014
b mcferren

hopefully Hayes can remember that same up the middle approach that helped him in the beginning of his big league career

maybe the shift ban helps him in this department

bucsws2014

Andujar with hardest hit ball of the night, albeit a routine groundout to 3b. 110.4.

1979andCounting

It’s sounding like no doubt in Hank’s plans that. he’s going to be a catcher. Oh boy.

PirateRican21

Shit, let’s hope he does become a MLB quality catcher!

1979andCounting

No doubt. The Oh Boy was reference to another Cruz situation……if Hank kinda resists a change in positions, which they’ve already started OF work with him.

b mcferren

Henry Davis talking to Greg Brown about how Jason Kendall will be the next Pirates manager right now

Last edited 2 months ago by b mcferren
Wilbur Miller

Ah, we’re back in Dumbo’s comfort zone. No Bae, no Castro, but we got Collins and Godoy.

RAS TN

I can’t believe that no one on here is not outraged by the actions of the FO…With the DFA of Chavis and Allen with the end of the year right around the corner, just absolutely bush league, and if anyone here doesn’t think that this is going to go over with the players…What FA that’s playing with a full deck is ever going to sign with the Pirates after treating these 2 players like pawns…

Please I do not want to hear that they are FA or any of that crap, these 2 players are good guys that deserved better than this…

mikeschalke

They need good players not good guys.

RAS TN

They need both…

robertkasperski

In case you haven’t noticed, there have been a lot of “good guys” DFAd/released around the league and other players claimed from those waiver liara since the beginning of September. Again, the Pirates are operating much like the rest of the league right now and have no idea why you or anyone else expects them to operate any differently than the rest of the league.

Anthony

Bad Take. They’ve given 65+ guys MLB opportunities this year, not to mention MLB money and service time. Enough with the moral grandstanding.

docdon385

I’ve been outraged by the Pirate front office, this one or the last one matters little, for the past 5 years so why would today be any different. Allen has no business in the major leagues while Chavis has yet to prove if he does or not.

The problem is the thrift shop players BC keeps bringing in then discarding simply to bring in another. Either build a team or stop pretending you plan to. This guy’s nothing but the latest scam artist working for another scam artist.

1979andCounting

It’s the 3 consecutive 100 loss or equivalent seasons that is going to repel quality FA’s. Not the 400 ABs Chavis got or that the Pirates even gave Allen a lot of playing time after 90 days on IL.

Anthony

Exactly, if anything it creates some goodwill with the PA, giving guys MLB opportunities that wouldn’t otherwise get them.

PirateRican21

RAS TN

Clown…

PirateRican21

Oh, my bad you were serious.

robertkasperski

Also, I guess that makes me a clown too., Just can’t decide what kind i want to be……………

This:

or this:

PirateRican21

As a former kid, I will go with the first one.

robertkasperski

LOL! Yeah, life is to dang short to get so serious about sports or other entertainment. I love to watch/listen to games and talk about the game and players and the Bucs. However, I just can’t get all worked up the “stuff” especially when it the whole scheme of things, it would mean a flippin bit of difference in the entire situation. I was still driving home last night when Cruz slid by the bag trying to disrupt the double play attempt. I was laughing out loud when they were talking about how badly the replay umpire blew the rule interpretation and the ultimate call of no interference. Not sure what I was laughing harder at, how badly messed up the call was or the thought of a bunch of people like us on a Cincinnati fan board screaming bloody murder about it and no doubt lost sleep over it last night.

robertkasperski

i’m too old for serious……that is why you see my sill gifs all the time…. this is all that I can be serious any more

1979andCounting

Only on this team can the waiver claim be immediately the #3 hitter…….what a joke!

1979andCounting

Cruz back in leadoff….smh. Shouldn’t surprise me since Shelton was the genius to bat Vogelbach leadoff too.

hoptown

If my math is correct, I believe Miguel Andujar will be the MLB record breaking 68th player to appear for the Pirates this season. We’re #1 !!!

AdministrativeSky236

I think i saw a comment the other day that the guardians are in the 80s this year, though that could be my mistake

TNBucs

BR lists 65 players for us (not including Andujar, but evidently missing a couple of others too) and only 49 players for the Guardians. They list 66 players for the Reds and 64 for the Cubs, so we’re neck-and-neck with them.

AdministrativeSky236

Oops alright good to know! Lets make history!

1979andCounting

The Tigers and Rays both signed Chase Anderson and released him this year, without throwing an inning in the show. He’s literally pitching for his life tonite. We’re either going to hit him hard or get shutout!

robertkasperski

He has been pitching for his life since he was traded by the Brewers to Toronto for Chad Freaking Spanberger, a 1b who liked to SO a lot…..no longer in baseball.

Last edited 2 months ago by robertkasperski
MB21

MOAR Arms! It seems like a given that one of Ortiz or Oviedo will get hurt next spring and who knows what will carry over. Free agent starters are still necessary.

robertkasperski

Yep, can never have too many.

John Dreker

That’s an interesting lineup. Don’t like Bae on the bench with so little time left in the season. He should be out there every day. No one else really fits that mold and he could replace literally any of the top seven hitters at their position, though I understand Andujar playing daily too, but he could be at first base and not batting third…

Anthony

I was thinking the same exact thing when I saw the lineup.

TNBucs

Is it sacrilegious to ask if Ortiz is a better prospect moving forward than Contreras? I know Contreras has a better pitch mix, but the movement on Ortiz’s 99 mph FB along with his bigger frame makes me wonder.

James_Robert5

No it’s not

Just check the Astros who have a great young pitching staff and many were ‘no names’

Ortiz was the best pitcher in Low A SE (?) last year

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/mls/cgi-bin/league.cgi?league=Low-A-Southeast&bp=pitching&stat=xFIP

Catch_22

Eye test says Ortiz is the better prospect.

Minor League track record and pedigree is Contreras.

It’s only been 3 games, but maybe something just clicked in his last triple A start. I have no idea how he pitched to a 4.64 era (4.45 fip) in AA.

Catch_22

It’ll be interesting to see how Fangraphs grades him as a prospect.

robertkasperski

Yeah, I am really having issues tempering my enthusiasm for Ortiz as a starter. That is the reason that i don’t want to plug him into the Major League bullpen unless absolutely necessary. Would love him to be in the Indy rotation to start the year and if he picks up where he leaves off this year be like Ro and put him in the rotation Mayish to Juneish next season. Now if an absolute miracle happens and the Bucs sign 2 starters, a couple solid pen arms, a sold catcher, a 1B and a solid OF and they need a pen arm to really compete then I change my mind and put him in the pen to go with Bednar, Yerry, Holderman and the new vet relievers since they could really be in position to compete. Not counting on all of the pieces in 23 though

Todd

Boy I don’t care if the defense is not solid-Underwood is awful.

ArkyWags

Right. And it’s one of those things where I think the team should be the adult in the room and move Reynolds/Cruz off their positions to the corner OF. With shifts being limited next season, it becomes more important.

TNBucs

Mr. Positivity on that 9th inning (when sacrifice flyballs don’t really help), via Kevin Gorman:

“We’re seeing encouraging signs,” Shelton said. “If you look at that core group of young players, all of them had good at-bats in the ninth inning. … Those guys didn’t give in. They grinded through at-bats, and we put ourselves in a situation where we’re one swing away from it being an 8-7 game. … We’re getting a really good opportunity to get eyes on a lot of these guys.”

So now it’s not even the number of 1- and 2-run losses but the number of losses where we were within a HR with runners on base of making it 1- or 2-run loss. I did like, though, that he referred to our young players as being the core group.

joesolo6181

Funny, but as good as Ortiz has pitched, we have to know the Pirates will not bring him to the majors for another two years. They have to use everyone else before giving him a chance. Why? Its the Pirate way of doing things of course. Which put another way is the wrong way with everything that they do.

Anthony

FYI, he basically went from AA to MLB, and he is by no means a finished product.

robertkasperski

Roansy arrived pretty soon. Same with Cole, Taillon, they tried with Glasnow but he kept blowing up, They will bring him up to stay in 2023 if he shows he can keep pitching as he has. Same with Oviedo.

jsdspud

Glad to see Ortiz pitching so well but I worry that now the FO is going to worry about Super 2 status and we won’t see him again until June of 2023. I don’t see a reason why he isn’t in the rotation in April.

robertkasperski

If that ends up being the case and they need a starter sooner, I can see them eating a year for on or two guys. Depends on who they sign as FA and how quality they are and if it looks like they could actually look towards a WC or not. If something really weird happens and the pick up enough pieces and one or two of those Indy rotation guys would make a difference …….. 🙂

robertkasperski

Suddenly the depth that was starting to be acquired 2+ years ago is now going to be in Indy and Toona with players still coming from below. Getting really fun and this is why I was thinking the additions to the MLB roster from FA and a trade or two will start this off season. Really hope that I am right and we will see a much more competitive team in Pittsburgh in 2023.

Anthony

I think last off-season is an indictment of how this FO felt about the “core” prospects in Indy. It was basically Cruz and Contreras and that’s it; not really enough to start building around at the MLB level. This off-season will be much different.

robertkasperski

Every other team in the league would be doing the same thing unless they believed that they had a roster that was set to seriously contend for a World Series birth and needed that player from day one to compete. I would not expect the Pirates to operate any differently.

Shultzie31

Thank you. Super 2 is a part of the game and if you’re not taking advantage, especially as a small market club, you’re a moron. Wtf is the difference between 88 and 92 losses next year. Earn a year of control.

TNBucs

I think we should distinguish between holding someone down to avoid Super Two and holding someone down to gain an extra year of control. There’s about a 7-week difference between the two dates, typically. It’s an easy case to make that those seven weeks aren’t worth the potential millions that an extra arb year would cost, but it is just about the money.

I agree that every other team would hold him down the 2-3 weeks necessary to gain the extra year, but I don’t think every other team would hold him down to avoid Super Two. In fact, if every team did pay as close attention to Super Two as the Pirates seem to, then Super Two would keep getting moved back later in the year as teams played a game of chicken–how long can you hold your top prospects down before calling them up and risking paying them more for that extra arb year?

Shultzie31

True. Was figuring on the dates being closer due to this month of service time but that’s a good point about super 2 getting pushed back

TNBucs

And to break this into a separate comment, Ortiz is a great candidate to sign to an extension and while making him eligible for Super Two would increase his leverage to get a bigger deal, it would likely still be team-friendly given that he only got a $25k bonus and likely comes from a pretty modest background. So I’d love to see them keep him down long enough to ensure the extra year of control but not worry about Super Two, figuring instead that once he proves himself over a bigger sample size, they’ll work out an extension.

robertkasperski

That would make all the difference in the world by getting him to extend. Hell yeah!!!! Do it yesterday!!!

robertkasperski

Happy Ro Day Y’all!!!!

Hope he tortures the Reds after his last start and the Slam off of the bat of Cabrerra…

Mtgj

Offseason needs.

1. Figure out the bullpen.

We all know bullpens can change from year to year and hopefully BC can put together a bullpen that is much better than this years version of the worst bullpen in MLB history,

2. Sign a first baseman.

My pick would be rizzo to a 3 year 50 million, but this position needs solidified in the offseason.

3. Catcher.

I would sign a veteran to battle it out with Jason delay for the backup duties, with endy starting the season as the catcher from day 1.

If BC can take care of these 3 positions then 2023 could be a pretty good year. I’m excited to see what all these young kids can do, lets just hope BC makes the right offseason moves.

Shultzie31

Rizzo?!?!?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

The pirates couldn’t even get him on playstation

Last edited 2 months ago by Shultzie31
JoeNastasi

They will give Andujar every opportunity next year @ 1B & they should. Endy had an incredible year, but so did Matt Frazier the year before. Following this season with another next year will be Awesome but not guaranteed. Only way I’d open the year with Endy is if he signs long term deal with a few options to get him into early 30’s.
Cut ties with Allen, Gamel, Newman & Underwood.
Sign JT & a DH
Mve Reynolds to LF
Move Cruz to CF, our young staff shouldn’t be exposed to his D @ SS
Let AJ throw out 1st pitch on opening day & announce he has been signed as a roving pitching instructor. Some of our pitchers need an attitude adjustment on the mound

ArkyWags

Some of this (moving Reynolds) is good. Some is…not. Also what is this “attitude adjustment” that’s needed? I think, by and large, the pitching showed some improvement. Or is this just another example of the hard-on Pgh fans have for Burnett?

Catch_22

Yeah, attitude adjustment!

Catch_22

My God

Catch_22

You’re willing to lose a year of control to have Endy on the Opening Day roster on a rebuilding club. He needs to be in AAA to work on the craft of catching.

Jason Delay isn’t the answer as a backup. He’s someone you keep in AAA and is your 3rd catcher.

Last edited 2 months ago by Catch_22
b mcferren

Would be cool to give Sabol and Bins opening day through May at bats

Wilbur Miller

Delay is definitely not a ML backup. His nine errors are the second most among catchers, and he’s only played 51 games. There are 11 teams with fewer than nine catcher errors. He’s been poor on steal attempts generally. And this is a glove-only catcher.

CTBucco

I’m with you Wilbur. I don’t get to watch too many games, but when I’ve seen Delay catch, he seems to try to stab wide pitches with his glove rather than getting out to block them. I’ve probably seen three cases in the last two weeks where this happened leading to WP’s (that should be PBs). And his framing is not at all subtle. He jerks his glove into the zone on fringe pitches. I’m just not impressed with his D.

Iowasteel

Doing any storm prep?

ArkyWags

Damn, he has that many? I never knew I’d pine for the excellent backstopping of Doumit.

ArkyWags

I’d say that I’d rather they spend on the rotation to fill that out and move guys like Oviedo to the bullpen. Two birds, one stone.

Agree on 1B, but I think there’s no way Rizzo signs. Mancini?

Endy has 36 games above high A. There is no way he will be the starting catcher from day 1, nor should he be. For 2023, I think they go with another one year solution till the Kid Catchers are ready. It’s not ideal, but it’s the right move.

robertkasperski

I think that they sign Roberto Perez again at the least. I have said for some time that I believe that this offseason will be the start of the infusion of real talent to the MLB roster. They needed some of the kids that will be part of the future to arrive in the show and a handful of others on the cusp. That is where they are at the moment. One bullpen piece returned in the last couple of days in Bednar. 2 other prominent pieces are still on the IL in Yerry and Holderman. Get Crowe back to the 7th inning role where he excelled and keep him there. Add a couple of quality BP arms and one or two quality starting options. A decent 1b would be nice as well and start Nunez at 1B in Indy and play him every day to see how he fields it and if he continues to hit.

Catch_22

You’d be pretty foolish to move Oviedo to the pen after the gem he spun Saturday night.

I would sign another Q or Anderson, because there’s no chance Ortiz will break camp in the rotation, nor should he.

dbsteel

I’d like him to continue to start. They need a formidable starting rotation, and the two guys throwing gas is a good start.

ArkyWags

You’d be equally foolish to think that Oviedo should be granted a rotation spot after one good start against a 90 loss team. I don’t think he’s got the command to start, but he’s a weapon in the pen. They need those too.

They can sign an actual starting pitcher or two and beef up the bullpen with high octane internal arms like Oviedo.

Last edited 2 months ago by ArkyWags
PirateRican21

Are you NMR second account? You could tell me…

Catch_22

No. Nowhere near as smart as NMR

PirateRican21

Selling yourself short!

Catch_22

He started 5 games for the Buccos to the tune of a 3.05 era and 3.07 fip, while k’ing more than a quarter of hitters. That’s good and I wouldn’t put him into the pen until he shows he isn’t a starter.

Ortiz is the one I worry about regressing to the mean. Hitters will adjust and there’s nothing in his minor league track record that suggest this is even remotely sustainable.

robertkasperski

I too would like them to start out in the Indy rotation to see how they go as starters. The Bucs will have Holderman and Yerry back to go with Bednar and if Crowe is returned to his 6th/7th inning role and succeeds again how he did before he got pushed to the 8th and 9th and fell appart, they have the makings of a pretty good pen and need to add a quality lefty or two to the mix and another quality righty for some veteran leader ship in the pen to finish the job.,

PirateRican21

Crowe 7th inning in Indy? Here’s the deal, Crowe’s best weapon is his change, his change has been garbage so has his command. Don’t think he should get a spot ahead of even players like Bolton, Bido, Yerry. Is not best to have all your pen arms be FB, slider combo, but at least they are better pitches than what Crowe feature.

robertkasperski

Never said Crowe in Indy. If Crowe was effective in a 6th/7th inning role then he would fit in a quality pen. If not, see ya! I am wondering if when they forced him to the 8th/9th inning roll, he was trying to hard to throw hard to look the part of a closer more than pitching how he did when successful. If the Bucs could pick up a quality vet SP and a couple of quality BP arms to go with Bednar, Yerry and Holdeman I would rather see Oviedo and Ortiz begin the season in Indy in the Rotation and see how they progress. If they need them in the pen then so be it. Just thinking for future would like to see if they develop into power arms for the rotation instead of pigeon holing them into the pen if they do not have to.

Share article

Latest articles

PIRATES PROSPECTS WEEKLY

Latest comments

112
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x