Pirates Discussion: Dickens of a Start

It was the best of starts, it was the worst of starts.

Aaron Judge lead off the bottom of the first for the New York Yankees with a double. Pittsburgh Pirates starter Roansy Contreras almost worked out of a runners on the corners with one out situation before walking Giancarlo Stanton and giving up a grand slam to Oswaldo Cabrera for a quick 4-0 deficit.

After that, the 22 year old rookie showed some grit, allowing only a double while racking up the strike outs through the next three innings. Including Harrison Bader to end the first, Contreras struck out seven of the next eleven batters he faced.

Roansy was on his way to completing five innings with a runner on second — Aaron Judge’s second double of the game — with two outs before the Yankees strung two hits together (and a wild pitch mixed in that I feel Delay should’ve had) and scored two more runs to end Contreras’ evening. Chase De Jong entered the game with and struck out Stanton to end the inning and the Pirates down 6-1.

Roansy Contreras ended the evening with six earned runs in 4.2 IP while walking two and striking out ten batters. He generated a lot of whiffs on the evening with 19 total, but he also gave up a lot of hard contact with an average exit velocity of 97.3 MPH.

Up to that point the Pirates managed to only score one run on a Ke’Bryan Hayes sacrifice fly in the fourth inning. The offense attempted to threaten in the sixth with two outs, after Hayes collected another RBI on a single that put runners on first and third. Michael Chavis replaced Cal Mitchell to face the Yankees LHP Lucas Luetge, and promptly grounded out to end the threat.

De Jong came back out for the sixth and had a very efficient seven pitch inning setting down the Yankees in order. He ended the night with 1.1 hitless innings and one strike out.

Miguel Yajure was tabbed for the seventh and had himself a quick 1-2-3 inning on only nine pitches with one strike out. Yajure came back out for the eighth and that’s when things began to really tumble.

Gleyber Torres kicked off the bottom of the eighth with a HR. Yajure then walked the next two batters followed by an RBI double that ended his evening. That brought in Eric Stout, who entered the evening having allowed seven of his thirteen inherited runners to score. Well, as you could guess, he allowed both inherited runners to score. And then some. So much so, that Gleyber Torres came back up to bat and hit his second HR of the inning, a three run shot to put the score at 14-2.

That would be the ending score as at least the Pirates didn’t let Judge hit another HR.

Cubs @ Pirates

Time: 6:35 PM EST

Pirates Starter: Mitch Keller (5-11, 4.03)

Cubs Starter: Hayden Wesneski (1-1, 2.30)

Keller Notes: Pirates return home after a rough New York road trip to face a team that’s a little more their speed. Mitch Keller will be making his 27th start of the season and looking to finally drop his ERA below four. After back-to-back shutouts, Keller gave up three earned runs across six innings to the New York Mets. It has easily been Keller’s best season in the big leagues and he’ll look to finish strong over the last couple weeks.

LINEUPS:

Pirates

Cubs

UPDATE: David Bednar returns

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Wilbur Miller

Apparently Bae is coming up, only two months later than he should have.

PirateRican21

Wait, what? That means we are losing someone like Zach Collins. No, no I say!

emjayinTN

Well deserved. My path forward would have both Castro and Bae on the active roster complementing Hayes at 3B and Cruz at SS to start 2023. How about Endy?

Also like how Malcom Nunez has adapted to 1B and look for him sometime in 2023. Also, how about spending 2 or 3 weeks of the Fall at Pirate City or the DR working with Ro Castro at 1B. Already has played 2B, SS, 3B, so why not? Don’t need Chavis or Collins.

We need to clear the 40 to hide a lot of producing prospects at AA/AAA.

Wilbur Miller

Seven straight. Dumbo keeps piling up those long losing streaks. It’s his only talent.

TNBucs

Don’t blame Derek. If his pitchers would just execute their pitches, he’d be manager of the year. Just ask him.

chappy

I don’t know what it means in the long run, but I am encouraged by B-Rey’s recent success.

TNBucs

Dang, Castro hit it well but just right at ’em. Would have been great to see him get the walk-off.

bucsws2014

Yeah. Instead he had 8 lobsters tonight.

PirateRican21

Rodolfo with two line drive to CF for outs, those are the breaks.

forkball

Wow, they won’t let Delay hit  😂 

TNBucs

Just noticed that the Yankees DFA’d Andujar today. He’s played some 1B in the minors and seems like he’d be worth claiming. He is up for his second arbitration year, so maybe that prices him out of Nutting’s budget.

Anthony

I was thinking the same thing, then remembered reading somewhere that he was being a whinny b*tch about playing positions other than 3rd base 🤷🏻‍♂️.

forkball

The question remains …why is Suwinski being put through this? Maybe he should ask Crowe?

PiratePrimate

My feelings, exactly. What’s the point of making a bad situation worse? Give the kid a break. He’s never played ball this deep into a season and he’s certainly never been in a funk like this so why continue the abuse?

TNBucs

Ross seems to know how to play the probabilities with the pen. The Cubs are a bad team; I think the 9 game difference in the standings is the difference between having a very good manager and a bad manager.

jon6er

Yeah, Ross makes a mistake about once or twice a month while Shelton is good for four or five a week.

emjayinTN

Not sure what Shelton’s qualifications are/were, but he is not the answer for the Pirates. I doubt that eating the last year of his contract would cost much.

I would like to see what Don Kelly can do. He’s the perfect fit – born in Butler, played HS at Mt Lebanon, college ball at Point Park, so local since birth, 7 or 8 years as a player in MLB, and our Bench Coach the past 3 years. The path for him into MLB was not easy, but he persevered and made it. Well respected in MLB circles as a prime managerial prospect, and a Bro-in-Law named Neil Walker who may know a little about MLB also. Can it get any easier than this?

AdministrativeSky236

Uh why is bednar going in

Wilbur Miller

This was scheduled back before he became closer.

TNBucs

That might make sense if he had found someone who could close things out in the 9th, but…

AdministrativeSky236

Hoping for two pittsburgh sports wins tonight

PirateRican21

Zach Collin’s bat looks awfully slow. Is good to know that there will be plenty of players that will be easy to remove from the 40 at years end.

Wilbur Miller

It’d be better to know they’ll actually be removed.

Wilbur Miller

Just for the heck of it, my current list of guys to remove:

Banuelos
Beasley
Cederlind (not looking like he’ll get healthy)
Fernandez
Ramirez
Solomon
Stephenson
Underwood
Wilson
Collins
Delay
Heineman
Chavis
Park
Allen

Perez and Gamel will be FAs, and Newman will be non-tendered if they can’t trade him, to save Nickels the arb2 salary.

So that’s 18, with the roster starting at 46 counting IL-60 guys. And I could easily give up 4-5 more.

PiratePrimate

That’s a good start

PirateRican21

I’m not kidding when I write that I don’t know who Beasly, Solomon and Fernandez are!

Wilbur Miller

They used to go by Banda, Fletcher and Hanhold. Before that they were known as Ponce, Overton and Poppen. They’ve had many names, many identities through the ages. Only the wisest recognize them. Only the wisest know their deepest, most guarded secret: They suck, but they do it cheaply.

PirateRican21

I guess knowledge can be a course!

forkball

Wow

bucsws2014

Losing Cederlind hurts, but I agree. I have no issue with Manny, if used correctly, but if there’s a better LH pen guy out there, fine. I’d also consider Heineman. One of those spots need to be filled by a backup catcher and in that role, he’s fine.

Wilbur Miller

They’re gonna resign Perez. Beyond that, they should give Sabol, Endy and Bins a chance to make the team.

bucsws2014

You well know Endy has no shot of coming up before Super Two deadline. As far as Sabol or Bins, I’d still start a vet backup over either if we think there’s progress to be had vis a vis actually trying to win. And Perez is gonna get injured anyway. It’s a pattern.

Last edited 11 days ago by bucsws2014
Anthony

Endy doesn’t even have 150 PAs at AA+. He will likely start the year back in AA.

1979andCounting

Beede cleared, going back to Indy! I’m in the minority on him, but I ask who would you rather have pitching the 8th last night…..Stout or Beede.

bucsws2014

You’re at the zoo when a monkey flings poop at your face.You’re gonna get feces on you no matter what. Your only choice is: Which hand do you choose to deflect it?

That’s the real question you’re asking.

Wilbur Miller

My choice is Stout or Beede?

ArkyWags

I always hate the green light 3-0.

Wilbur Miller

Yeah, but Gamel and his .367 SLG are our cleanup hitter. Gotta let him hack away in case he belts an infield hit or something.

ArkyWags

I’ve disliked it going back to Hurdle. He always brayed about having faith in guys 3-0. Well, they seemed to take that as an order to swing no matter what.

John Dreker

Game is delayed. They expect a 7PM start time

Wilbur Miller

Mother Nature has seen enough bad baseball for a while.

PiratePrimate

Mother Nature phoned in to a sports talk show last week and said the Pirates would be competitive again when hell freezes over or she gets her way with Nickles.

RAS TN

So how do you get banned???

Catch_22

NMR banned? That would really suck! He just had a bad day and lost it.

Tim Williams

I banned him that day. The final straw was seeing him call another commenter a “complete f*cking moron” for literally no reason.

I don’t know how long this ban will last. I don’t have the time or energy to deal with this right now. This has also been a recurring thing with NMR, and I decided to stop it now. It’s up to him to change.

I limited my own interactions with him years ago. I know he’s always going to talk to me the way he did the other day. Nothing he says is new. He was actually auto-banned in the past, after getting reported by so many people. I turned that function off on the old comment system, since he was the only person who it impacted.

I can make my own decisions on how much I interact with him. That’s a personal choice.

I also have to act in the best interest of the overall site. I’ve actively ignored complaints from multiple people, and overlooked many bad days. As such, I’ve tacitly approved the way this one person treats many people on my site.

That is changing. If he can learn to disagree without trying to so harshly devalue the person he’s disagreeing with, then he can return.

Catch_22

I missed him calling another commenter a bleeping moron. Nonetheless, he had a bad day and I’m guessing between the Pirates looking like a daily clown show and possibly some personal life issues, he just lost it.

He reminds me a lot of friends of mine that I went to high school and college with and have remained friends after all these years. He also knows the sport of baseball better than anyone I’ve ever known, the guy could easily work for Fangraphs. It’s like he’s playing 3 dimensional chess and we’re playing checkers.

Maybe a 30 day reset is what he needs.

Last edited 10 days ago by Catch_22
Anthony

Not gonna lie, he is one of my fav commenters on this site despite many heated interactions with him in the past. He def lacks tact, but I respect him for his baseball knowledge and opinions. He thinks the game on a different level than most, and I can certainly appreciate that about him.

PirateRican21

Why? Can’t allowed that, civil war is a coming…..NMR 2024!

1979andCounting

Nah…..he just upvoted you on another thread!

Catch_22

I’m thinking he can upvote, downvote and read articles, but is banned from commenting. Hopefully, it’s just a 30 day deal.

ArkyWags

I was wondering the same thing.

b mcferren

when they call up Endy Rodriquez, will the Doors be his walk up song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScSEXRwUqQ

TNBucs

On the topic of walk-up songs, if Castro would pick this one it would be awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEK9oK02D1M

b mcferren

my late answer to the $100mil challenge

Sign Contreras and Jose Abreu to mentor Oviedo and Malcolm Nunez

Catch_22

All things considered, I thought he pitched well after the first. Slider was really on point and was making them look silly, Rizzo in particular.

Anyone else notice he’s lost velo? Early this season he was 96-98, now he’s 94-96.

I still don’t see a TOR starter, but an excellent 4th starter on a playoff team.

PirateRican21

He had a decent change up at times last year, he needs to find that pitch again to be more than what we’ve seen so far.

ArkyWags

Was it just this start or over several with the velocity down? Could be just a one start thing, like with Mitch earlier this month.

Im a bit higher on him than Bru/Keller who I think are 4’s. God, it really would be nice for them to sign someone at the front of that crew.

Wilbur Miller

According to the graphs at FG, there’s been a general, very slow downward trend since early season. Considering that he just fanned 10 (non-Pirates) over 4.2, I can’t see it as anything beyond baseball’s long season.

robertkasperski

Yes considering he has now pitched 122 1/3 innings this season between AAA and Pittsburgh and only pitched a total of 75 innings between AA/AAA/AFL and the 3 innings in Pittsburgh and nothing in 2020, I would say that you would be correct Wilbur. Has to be fatigued only because of the limited action prior to this year after 2019. Not worried in the least.

Catch_22

It’s been has last handful of starts.

Oh, I got Keller a few notches ahead of Contreras. His #’s since he incorporated the sinker is TOR stuff. We’re not talking a small sample of a handful of starts.

ArkyWags

When did he incorporate the sinker, June/July? I think Mitch has generally done well since July (although August was kinda meh). Ro seems to have more ceiling on his stuff. Or opportunity to get there.

Frankly, it’s just nice to see consistency from Keller start to start. Previously he’d almost always follow up a 6 inning gem with a dud. The dude has worked his ass off to make himself a decent piece, I’m hoping he keeps it up.

Catch_22

I’m more bullish on Keller due to his pitch mix. He can seemingly change his game plan on the fly. I love Contreras, but he’s pretty much a 2 pitch guy…slider and fastball.

PirateRican21

#extendKeller?

Catch_22

I’d entertain the idea of buying out his arb years and adding a couple years on.

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