The Pirates Trade Bryse Wilson to the Milwaukee Brewers

The Pittsburgh Pirates announced that right-handed pitcher Bryse Wilson has been traded to the Milwaukee Brewers for cash considerations. He was designated for assignment last week when the Pirates signed left-handed pitcher Jarlin Garcia.

The 25-year-old Wilson was acquired from the Atlanta Braves at the 2021 trade deadline in the Richard Rodriguez deal. He made 28 starts and five relief appearances for the Pirates over the last two seasons, going 4-13, 5.37 in 156 innings, with a 5.13 FIP, a 1.37 WHIP and a 102:42 SO/BB ratio.

Wilson had slightly better results in 2021 with the Pirates, resulting in 0.4 WAR according to Baseball-Reference. His -1.1 WAR in 2022 was the second worst on the team.

John started working at Pirates Prospects in 2009, but his connection to the Pittsburgh Pirates started exactly 100 years earlier when Dots Miller debuted for the 1909 World Series champions. John was born in Kearny, NJ, two blocks from the house where Dots Miller grew up. From that hometown hero connection came a love of Pirates history, as well as the sport of baseball.

When he didn't make it as a lefty pitcher with an 80+ MPH fastball and a slider that needed work, John turned to covering the game, eventually focusing in on the prospects side, where his interest was pushed by the big league team being below .500 for so long. John has covered the minors in some form since the 2002 season, and leads the draft and international coverage on Pirates Prospects. He writes daily on Pittsburgh Baseball History, when he's not covering the entire system daily throughout the entire year on Pirates Prospects.

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redwards60

I suspect the cash considerations were not very lucrative. Wilson is AAAA at best.

joesolo6181

I read that this player Cash Considerations acquired in the Wilson trade has quit a future according to the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times. Only time will tell if it will improve the Pirates.

Cocktailsfor2

Well, so much for the auto’d Wilson ball I got in my Pirates Charities bag this year…

postal911

The one year i bought that, I got a Clint Barmes autographed ball. It immediately became a chew toy for my dog and I never bought another charity backpack.

pikebishop65

True story: I’ve bought the back pack almost every year for the last ten. I got some good ones (Jordy Mercer) and some duds. There was a stretch of three years where I got Grant Jackson for my former Pirate ball. I loved Buck but hey. I actually called up and told Sarah (the girl I talked to) to check my bag before they shipped it. I got Bob Friend and Felipe (Rivero) Vazquez! Hey, whatever became of that guy?

patrick_kelly

I was going to post a gif of Tails giving Clint a fistbump in Chicago from…some time ago. Can’t get it to upload though 🙁

Here’s the link – https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM3RKoCpJNQ8Z_Xy1P-dlCt_A_Jc0J6zYkFITMD

Nice smile out of Tails – https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMdf9gAtqokTPfW4WQj2XwIXB5yPRze113gqYeH

And the full Barmes AB – https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPjw2GcjZIFl9lUyeDaYG6qsHYfRAlNKIh_YoEc

Cocktailsfor2

Can you dm me those links?

BonDrone

That had to be a real let down from the second you opened it.

Cocktailsfor2

Underwhelming, to say the least…

1979andCounting

Wondering how that 42 year old Rich Hill physical is going? Still no announced signing.

joesolo6181

I think when he was four years old he fell and skinned his knee. trade may be held up.

john.benedict

WILSON!-with help from a delusional skipper was able to:

Hand the NL’s MVP to Goldy ( look at the stats)

Tank enough to secure Dylan Crews #1 overall (lets hope)

Pitch arguably the best game of any Pirate in the entire organization,
only to get yanked by the same out of touch poser manager
who’s infamous quote
“just flush it”
had everyone relaxed
and made it sound OK to get back in the rotation and do it again

jaygray007

It’ll be interesting to see how he is used.
I can see 3 possibilities.
– They wanna see if his stuff plays up in the bullpen.
– they will keep him around and will put him in the rotation if there’s multiple injuries.
– dfa before opening day

PirateRican21

They just signed Wade Miley, so I’m guessing DFA if he is out of options.

emjayinTN

This is newsworthy, but more importantly, an article appeared in MLBTR yesterday regarding the distance between the Club and the wants of our best player, Bryan Reynolds. The estimates are the Pirates are around $70 mil and Reynolds representatives are at $120 mil. I favor 5 Years/$106 mil with a 6th year option/$3 mil buyout.

This team is losing ground by letting our young talented players leave without trying to arrive at a reasonable level of reimbursement by today’s standards. Reynolds has already returned $100 mil in performance value in his 3+ years of MLB Service and has 3 years left before FA. Be nice to think we have a guy who could return another $100 mil in the future.

This owner needs to get serious about winning or give up the ownership. The object is to try to win every minute of every day.

Wilbur Miller

5 Years/$106 mil with a 6th year option/$3 mil buyout.

This would leave Reynolds a FA potentially at age 32. He’d be an absolute moron to sign that deal. There’s a reason we’re seeing all these extremely long contracts. When teams finally figured out that players, especially hitters, are well into their declining years by their early 30s, players at that age started struggling to find good deals. As a result, guys with any leverage aren’t willing to do deals that leave them a FA at that age. If the Pirates offered Reynolds a deal that ended when he was 32 or 33 or so, it wasn’t a serious offer under current market conditions. The money involved barely even matters unless it was totally outlandish.

The Pirates have fallen so radically short of MLB payroll norms that it’s almost impossible for their fans to imagine what real contracts look like now. They literally play no role in the MLB talent market. They’re like the street cleaners sweeping up after a parade.

emjayinTN

Meant to respond, but got off in another direction. The option of 5 years/$100+ mil and a CO year is basically as far as I think the Pirates would offer. Ending at age 32 is not a negative in today’s marketplace where players and pitchers are being guaranteed gaudy numbers up to and through age 40!

Closest comp for Reynolds, 28, would be Brandon Nimmo, 30, only because the Mets are throwing money away. Nimmo has 3 years where he has played about 90% of his team’s games, and then 3 other years where he has played less than 50% of his team’s games. In Reynolds 3+ years of service he has played in 493 of 526 possible games – 93.7%!

Nimmo’s contract ends at his age 38, Reynolds contract for 5 years would end at his age 32. Nimmo has 17.9 fWAR in 6+ years to Reynolds 12.5 fWAR in 3+ years. In the last 2 years Nimmo has 8.7 fWAR, Reynolds 9.0 fWAR. Last 2 years Nimmo has 24 HR, Reynolds 51.

I think the Reynolds camp would like to throw a guaranteed $100+ mil into the bank, and look forward to coming back for more when he hits FA at the relatively young age of 32.

Wilbur Miller

Except this just isn’t how the market works now. And it’s not how most hitters’ career arc goes. Nobody with leverage wants to be a FA at 32.

NMR

That last paragraph hits.

Wilbur Miller

I don’t know what else to say. They’re not in the same sport as everybody else. Even the Rays went to, what, 11-12 years for Franco?

And the impact in a situation like Reynolds’ is far broader than fans seem to be picking up on. The other 29 teams know without the slightest doubt that the Pirates won’t make Reynolds a competitive offer based on the current market. They know the team has to trade Reynolds, and that they’ll do it when he has at least two YOC left, maybe three, because they won’t get a decent return for one year and because Nutting won’t want to pay an arb 3 or arb 4 salary. BC can float all the super-high asks he wants, but Bargain Bob has him in a straighjacket and the rest of MLB knows it.

Anthony

The risk profile on the Franco deal skews differently; the Rays basically eliminated any downside risk associated with “aging” as the contract terminates when he’s 31 yrs old.

I don’t think the Pirates would be afraid to do something similar, they just haven’t had that kind of player. Maybe that player will be Endy. Let him get his feet wet in the back half of this year, then next offseason you see an eight or nine year deal.

Catch_22

That’s exactly right…”The Pirates haven’t had that kind of player”

Franco was considered generational. Fangraphs gave him their highest grade ever with an 80 FV. Not exactly huge risk in paying a 20-year-old 16.5 for 11 years.

Anthony

The way the article was written makes it sound like money is the issue, not years. I don’t think they even mention years.

$50M apart, BR reps at $120M, Pirates offer around $70M

Wilbur Miller

The Pirates supposedly offered more than Hayes got. I’ve never seen any indication how much more.

jaygray007

I mean I think we are conflating a few different issues here.
Do we really care if they’re paying Reynolds 23 million in 2026 at age 33 or whatever? No I really dont think we actually care about that.

What people want is good baseball and for the team to spend on good players. Maybe that includesReynolds, maybe not.

I honestly don’t give a shit if they extend Reynolds. I just care that if they do let Reynolds go, that the team is good and that they’re spending an appropriate amount on the team. Give Reynolds 23 per year. Give some other good player that money. I dont care.

If they wanted, they could hand Reynolds 120 million thru 2028 or whatever and still have a payroll of 60 million. Extensions, aside from ones that rip off the players, are just a distraction from actual substance.

Last edited 1 month ago by jaygray007
emjayinTN

The point is that we have a kid who was raised in our system, and has posted 12.5 fWAR in his first 3+ years of MLB Service for the Pirates. We know what kind of person he is and it makes no sense to watch him leave because we could not make a fair extension offer to him. In the last two years he has averaged a .280 BA, .368 OBP, .491 SLG, a wRC+ of 133, and 4.5 fWAR.

The Pirates could pass on making any type of meaningful extension offer, but that would be a very stupid play. Make the effort and put it out there for all to see – if he accepts we all win; if he does not accept, the Pirates at least did as much as possible. It also sets a level of what the Pirates might want to accept in trade – something equivalent to a $20+ mil/year player.

jaygray007

i just dont think it really accomplishes anything. like okay, you kept a player at market rate, great. it’s great that youve committed to a player. we can all have the press conference and make out for a few hours.

i personally dont care if they give Reynolds that money or someone else that money.

whether they extend him or not, theyre gonna be absolutely wasting a cheap Reynolds year by not putting a good team around him. that’s 10x more of an issue to me than if he’s here or not after his arbitration years. Because at that point, i dont care if it’s him or if it’s someone else that they give that money to.

Last edited 1 month ago by jaygray007
NMR

I’m sympathetic to emjay’s take, but find myself coming down on your side.

The Braves are the platonic ideal of what emjay – and a shit ton of other fans! – are looking for. They’re almost completely pot-committed to their roster for the next decade, better or worse.

How they fare vs the likes of the A’s, Rays, Brewers who tend to be more nimble in roster construction will be interesting to follow.

emjayinTN

BTW, AA has been the best GM in baseball over the past few years, IMHO. He commits and pulls the trigger fast on long term contracts. And then does not sweat the small shit when it comes to adding a guy like Charlie Morton for a few years to help the Rotation.

See the comparison on MLB between the contracts of Austin Riley negotiated by AA in Aug 2022 (10 years/$212 mil), and the contract just negotiated by Boston with Rafael Devers (11 years/$331 mil) just 6 months later?

BA named him GM of the Year – very well deserved honor!

NMR

Great observation!

jaygray007

random thought. i wonder what plays better with fans…

a contract that has, say, bryan reynolds making 23 million in 26, 27, 28, and 29

or

signing an equivalent player for 23 million in 26 27 28 and 29.

i could see the PR machine working for either.

do they prefer the warm and fuzzies of keeping a guy, or the shiny new toy (following letting the home grown guy walk)

chuck_conner

If they don’t give BR the money, it will stay in the ownerships pocket. If they can’t/ won’t pay the players they have on their roster, why think they’ll go outside the organization.

AdministrativeSky236

Are you talking 5/106 from this year? We have him for 6.75 this year plus two more arb years so maybe aggressively at 15 and 20, which is ~42 mil for the next 3 which we have guaranteed. That extension tacks on 2/64 for the next two which feels a bit steep. Maybe 6/106 with a 7th year extension fits a bit better

emjayinTN

No, he is already signed for $6.75 mil in 2023. Particulars of the 5 years/$106 mil would be a $3 mil signing bonus immediately, $14 mil in ’24, $17 mil in ’25, $20 mil in ’26, $23 mil in ’27, $26 mil in ’28, $26 mil CO in ’29, $3 mil buyout. The signing bonus in 2023 helps increase that level of pay he will receive in 2023.

The Pirates have a unique talent in Reynolds, and a loaded group of Prospects who are watching all of this very closely. The Pirates have to make the offer and send a strong message to the fans, the city, and those kids in the minors that this franchise WANTS TO WIN!.

AdministrativeSky236

I see I see, so this extension would kick in after 2023. That makes more sense to me, though I would agree with wilbur above that reynolds probably wont be interested in that time of ending the deal

Anthony

You can technically increase the value of the contract by front loading it. I like the general terms w/r/t years and AAV, but I’d get there by giving him more money up front. This also better coincides with the wave at arb-eligible players in future years as well as any player declines.

emjayinTN

That’s always a possibility for an agent to counter with a front end loaded contract. The Pirates are in the court of public opinion and cannot afford to not make a significant offer.

Sure, offers are supposed to be confidential, but how do the reporters get all of the facts? Years ago negotiating through the press was a good way to lose your reputation, but it seems as if that has become a common practice these days.

Anthony

I think 5/$106M is spot-on, and I also think the Pirates offered him more than $70M. I just don’t see the value in 5/$120M, especially after the Murphy deal.

Last edited 1 month ago by Anthony
NMR

Cutch was the face of the franchise and a 4 WAR player in his last full season here, yet is remembered as if both his legs were amputated after 2015 and we were forced to continue playing him.

I’m picturing the reaction if Reynolds merely had the 3 WAR season he did in 2022, but making $20m or more, and it’s not pretty.

I don’t think Pittsburgh fans have the stomach for long term contracts.

Last edited 1 month ago by NMR
chuck_conner

I think the fans want to keep their good player’s. All I here when the Pirates have a draft choice, fans say, “he’ll be with the Yankees in 5/6 years. I really when most contracts were year to year. Curt Flood changed all of that, and now any contract signed is guaranteed for the life of the contract. A player that sold himself short can cry to get a better contract, the franchise has to abide by the original contract. Every player that got a multi-year contract should have a picture of Curt on their mantle.

NMR

Right up until the point that player begins to stink, which often comes in the extension years.

Fans are fickle creatures, myself included.

ArkyWags

One thing I remember most from Cutch’s last few years is fans getting bent out of shape about Cutch not wanting to move out of CF.

Catch_22

Eh, that 2017 season of 3.9 fWAR is the outlier. His 2016 season was worth 1.1 fWAR, after posting 6 in 2015. Subsequent seasons back up this claim.

Cutch, Cole, Liriano combined to be less than 10+ fWAR from ’15-’16. Which obviously is massive.

You do a fishbone analysis, and the root cause of failure is more of the decline of these 3, than Niese for Walker. Don’t get me wrong, Niese for Walker was part of the failure, but not nearly as much as losing 10 fWAR from 3 dudes you were absolutely counting on to deliver.

Nonetheless, I’m with you on the BRey extension…see what Cruz does this season and give him a nice extension.

NMR

lol, i’m talking about his time in Pittsburgh.

Catch_22

My bad. I thought you were referring to his last season in a Pirates uni and ignoring his previous season.

emjayinTN

‘Cutch was not a strong defensive CF, and most intelligent fans knew he was better in one of the corner positions. Pirate fans need to have the stomach for long term contracts – it is the current trend. Hayes last year and Reynolds this year is a good start.

Pittsburgh fans are not upset about large and long term contracts for the Steelers or Penguins, so they will accept it For A Winner.

chuck_conner

Those contract are not guaranteed.

SBRO

That 2016 season did really leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. No one even remembers the rebound to an all-star worthy 2017.

TurnerWardHitsTheWall

The revolving door of useless bodies continues with little end in sight.

skliesen

Was hoping he would be better for our Buccos. Best wishes for much success vs Cubs & Cards, not so much vs everyone else.

jon6er

You know he will turn out to be a Pirates killer while carrying a bad record into those starts, lol.

SBRO

Almost certainly suggests there were only 2 claims made on him. One claim obviously would have been a straight waiver deal. Three or more and you would have seen some other value in return (comp balance pick, Complex league lefty), or at the very least the Pirates would have chosen to not trade him within the division if they had their choice.

I don’t think Wilson’s on the verge of a breakout or anything, but considering his age, AAA competence, his post-callup OK-ness (as opposed to pre-optioning suckitude), the tease of a new pitch and the general state of pitching out there, I really thought he would have had more interest.

Last edited 1 month ago by SBRO
BonDrone

It just goes to show what every front office thinks of him.

Catch_22

Probably not much interest for a replacement level arm. Well below average k rates, gives up too many hrs and fb velo has declined every season. I’d be stunned if he’s on the brewers 26 man. More than likely, he’ll bounce around waivers a few more times this offseason.

Ethan Hullihen

I don’t think this is how it works.
It’s not as if you can pick and choose who gets awarded the claim; it’s based on record.
Therefore, the Brewers likely reached out and said we’ll pay you more in consideration than the waiver consideration ($50k) and the Pirates don’t put him on waivers, just trade him before needing to.

SBRO

Yeah, definitely did not mean to intimate that the Pirates have control over who gets the claim – forgive my shorthand. What I meant is, the Pirates have every right to work out a trade with any interested team, and the team that makes the best offer, all else being equal, gets Wilson. And the main point I was making is twofold: 1) the cash return (any return) suggests to me Milwaukee believed Wilson would be claimed before their waiver position, but 2) there wasn’t so much interest in Wilson that anyone was willing to work out a player-or-pick-based trade, and the Pirates probably weren’t in a position to choose between Milwaukee and another non-NL Central team, or else they’d likely have chosen to trade Wilson out of the division.

My understanding of the mechanics of the DFA process might be flawed. I thought the trade-or-waive process happens simultaneously rather than sequentially. Like, players spend 3 days on waivers, and if multiple teams put in a claim, the Pirates can work out a deal with either of them. Is that not how it works? Do they instead try to call the other 29 teams, and if they don’t find any takers they waive him?

Last edited 1 month ago by SBRO
Ethan Hullihen

Okay, sorry for the delay.

The issue seems to be for many fans the assumption that a player is immediately placed on waivers when designated for assignment, but that’s not the case.

A DFA is exactly what it’s called–“we are designating you for assignment”–assignment in this case meaning an assignment to another team (trade) or assignment to a minor league team (outright assignment). The designation is simply a placeholder, a promise to make this move in a timely fashion, because in the meantime you needed the roster spot. A DFA isn’t allowed to happen unless a roster spot is needed. You can trade a player, outright a player, place a player on the 60-day IL without needing a spot, but you can’t just DFA a player.

Once this “promise” is made, the team has 7 days to settle the designation and assign a player, with the DFA date being Day 0. The way waivers work is there’s basically a two day period between when a player is placed and when claims must be submitted, so for simplicity a player MUST be placed on waivers by Day 5 of 7 in order to meet the requirements and be able to outright the player by Day 7 if no team make a claim. In theory, that gives teams a few days to fulfill the designation another way–via assignment to another team (trade).

What you were saying isn’t totally untrue–the fact of the matter is that the Brewers valued Wilson enough to jump line and not take the chance that he would get to them via waivers. Looks like they were tied for 19th in record in 2022, meaning that’s 17 or 18 teams that he would have to make it through to get to them. Teams generally know what kind of value their players have around the league, and the Brewers determined they would rather give up a little extra cash to get Wilson through trade then chance losing the opportunity and saving a little cash. Last I can officially determine, waiver claims cost $50k, so presumably the Brewers would have to give up more than that to make it worth the Pirates’ while. How much? That I don’t know. The only cash amount I’ve ever seen reported in a scenario like this was $75k, so that’s an extra $25k for doing business.

Now, as you also said, if there was greater value for Wilson, a player is likely involved and not just cash. Lucas Luetge was trade for 2 prospects after being DFA’ed by the Yankees recently, showing his value on the market. So, there was likely enough value in Wilson to get a little extra cash out of the deal, but not a prospect. The Pirates would have asked around and figured that out, and if there was no market, then they have to run him through waivers. But in this case, he was trade, hence he never actually hit waivers.

Make sense? Let me know if you have questions, but I gotta go do dishes.

chuck_conner

I think a waver claim cost 100k and the by back is 50k. Am I getting the waver claim mix up with the rule5 draft?

Ethan Hullihen

I definitely want to address this, but coming up on bedtime, so check back in a bit.

sweetnich

Thanks SBRO, I’d never considered that 2 teams = cash considerations, 3 = trade. Makes sense.

Learned something today.

SBRO

I mean, it’s definitely an oversimplification, but it’s pretty straightforward. If there’s no claim, Wilson passes through waivers and is outrighted to AAA. If there’s one claim, no competition, the claiming team gets Wilson, gives up no value in return. If there’s more than one claim, then the team willing to part with the best value gets him. Cash considerations isn’t a lot of value. It’s better than nothing, but not by much. So if a guy is traded for cash, there was definitely more than one interested team, but not much more, or the return would be better (like it was for Castillo or Park).

It could be that you have 3 teams who value Wilson as worth no more than nominal cash considerations, in which case you’re at least going to pick the team that you don’t have to face 13 times a year. So the fact that it’s the Brewers and cash considerations, rather than something of real value, leads me to believe that there were only 2 interested teams.

SBRO

Update – it looks like I misunderstood the mechanics of waivers – trades would need to be worked out PRIOR to placing Wilson on waivers. So definitely the terminology I used above is wrong, and some of the logic is weaker too.

Still holds that if there are multiple interested teams, you’re going to get a bigger return, so the fact that they got cash means there was at least the expectation that he would be claimed (in other words, more than 1 team interested in adding Wilson), but the fact that it was only cash – and from a division rival, no less – suggests there wasn’t so much interest that the Pirates could have done better, or traded Wilson out of the division.

RaisetheJollyRancherGirl

He’s going to be good for the Brewers, isn’t he?

bhritz

I don’t think so. If it was just his experience with the Pirates, sure thing, but the Braves couldn’t fix him either.

k1rainey

Decent chance. I still like him

b mcferren

looking forward to us peppering this guy

JimEastTennessee

Be our luck he turns into this guy

Wabbit_Season

LOVE this.

Danatural08

cash!

john_fluharty

I’m guessing they got $1.25 lol

Wilbur Miller

And a Bud Lite!

BonDrone

That would be worse than nothing.

Catch_22

Selig?

JimEastTennessee

warm and expired.

ravidesai1984

A warm and expired bud light tastes better than a Milwaukee’s Best.

BonDrone

That is like saying urine tastes better than ejaculate.

john_fluharty

Aka ‘the beast’

piratemike

I’m just wondering why and how you know what either of them taste like. I just hope you had a gun pointed at your head forcing you to drink.

ravidesai1984

Milwaukee’s best was the most prevalent beer at parties when I was in college.

BonDrone

I was the guy who brought and drank the imports (no craft beers then).

john_fluharty

It was Busch light in my day

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