Pirates Discussion: Pirates Drop Second Game

It wasn’t his greatest start, but Mitch Keller still looked good.

As has been his recent trend, he mixed up his pitch usage against the New York Mets. He threw 84 pitches with 57 of them going for strikes. His four seam fastball (39%) lead the way, with his sinker (25%) second. Keller used his curveball (17%) and slider (15%) with near identical usage, and his changeup last (4%). His fastballs accounted for 54 of his 84 pitches.

Keller dabbled with a sub-4.00 ERA during the game but ultimately couldn’t hold it. He’d give up three earned runs across six innings while giving up five hits, two walks, and a HBP to go along with six strikeouts. He also set a new career high of 143.0 IP in a season.

Some of the more interesting metrics on the night involve that he generated 10 whiffs and 18 called strikes. He had an average exit velocity of 82.5 MPH on the evening. His four seam only had three balls-in-play with an average EV of only 72.5 MPH. His slider also had five more inches of horizontal break than his average. A sinker breaking 16 inches one way and his slider 18 inches the other is going to create some fun looks for hitters.

The offense didn’t provide Keller with much run support, as they were only able to manufacture one run while he was on the mound. That one run came in the fifth inning when Michael Chavis singled to score Ke’Bryan Hayes.

Manny Banuelos took over for Keller in the 7th with a 3-1 deficit. Banuelos gave up an earned run in his only inning with two hits and a strikeout. The first three batters all reached with a double, fielding error by Cruz, and then a bloop single that Cruz ran towards LF for but couldn’t run down, leading to the run.

Cruz then came out in the eighth inning and hit a monster 429 ft two-run HR to cut the lead to 4-3. It was his 16th of the season, which ties him with fellow rookie Jack Suwinski as second on the team behind only Bryan Reynolds.

Duane Underwood Jr. pitched the bottom of the 8th and got out unscathed after only allowing a walk to Daniel Vogelbach. Terrance Gore replaced Vogelbach and stole 2B before moving to 3B on a Tyler Heineman throwing error. Gore would end up not scoring though.

Edwin Diaz had replaced Mets starter Taijuan Walker after the Cruz 8th inning HR and was left to finish off the game in the 9th. He had very little trouble with the Pirates having retired both hitters in the 8th and then facing the minimum in the 9th. Ben Gamel initially walked and was replaced by Greg Allen who was thrown out attempting to steal second. It was a controversial play with Mets second baseman blocking the bag, but was reviewed and deemed legal.

Pirates fell 4-3 and back below the Detroit Tigers.

Pirates @ Mets

Time: 7:10 PM EST

Pirates Starter: Bryse Wilson (3-8, 6.03)

Mets Starter: Chris Bassitt (13-8, 3.44)

Wilson Notes: This will be Bryse Wilson’s 22nd appearance and 18th start of the season. He’s just six innings shy of 100.0 IP on the season. His last start against the Cincinnati Reds involved a lot of contact but he was still able to record his third win of the season.




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Hard to believe but the Pirates do not have the worst bullpen ERA in the majors, although they are pretty damn close. Take heart though, the bullpen has given up the most hits and most earned runs in baseball and by a pretty large margin. “We’re number 1” or make it number 30?

b mcferren

#BenchKeByran #CastroPower


Any casual fan can see that dejong is pitching on fumes at 40 pitches, yet I guess it’s too much bother for Shelton and Marin to have someone ready in the pen. WTH is he waiting for? Really pisses me off leaving a guy out there who is struggling with command. Especially with Sept. expanded roster.

Wilbur Miller

Typical Wilson start. He’s mastered the art of pitching lots of subpar-but-not-horrendous innings.

And thank heavens they didn’t dfa Stout, too. 24 pitches to get two outs. Is that the baseball version of time of possession?

John Dreker

New team strikeout record. You have never seen this many strikeouts in a season, even Lee who was around for the 1882 team by all accounts. https://twitter.com/JohnDreker/status/1571291746323075072


And we even achieved it within the 154 games of the schedule pre-1962–no asterisk needed!


Have the Pirates ever had 2 first year players hit 15+ HR in one season. And, after Castro hits his next HR, he will be the 4th Rookie to hit 10 or more HR’s this season. This team has talent at the plate and on the bump.


Mackey had another fluff piece about his buddy Shelton today, but I guess that’s what gives him access. I start warming up to Shelton (he has been stuck with a pretty weak roster) and then I read quotes from him and I just can’t feel good that this is the guy leading our team. Maybe some players will step up to fill the leadership void.


Don Kelly needs to be the Manager of the Pirates NOW! Shelton is a dud and yes, the talent level was less than hoped for, but 3 straight years of winning percentages in the 300’s is an insult to this franchise and the city of Pittsburgh.

Nutting needs to act like an owner trying to win – that means Shelton goes now, or Cherrington and Shelton go together. Nutting is a sharp enough business person to know it is time to act. His “poor boy” act has run its course and the rest of the owners, MLB, and the MLBPA are going to be looking for the Pirates to get real with their payroll.


I don’t know about Kelly–if he’s the right guy, then that would have to imply that Shelton basically ignores his advice despite Kelly being his bench coach. Given Shelton’s reputation for stubbornness, that’s possible.


The Pirates need a manager who will make the players accountable, if that’s Kelly fine if not then find someone who will…


I agree, but accountability from the players has to start with accountability from the GM and the franchise ownership. Annual roster assembly that begins with has-beens or never-have-beens is not the way to achieve or expect accountability from the players.

The laughing stock of MLB is what the Pirates have become, and that has to end. Too much talent in this org at the upper 2 levels to try this tired BS another year. Send the message RIGHT NOW, so these kids know coming in next year that things will be different!


Have become?

Wilbur Miller

What exactly is the obsession with Gamel batting cleanup every day? In Sept. so far he’s 4-for-31 with two RBIs. On the season, his SLG is seventh on the current roster, and he’ll probably fall behind Mitchell in the next day or two.


Doesn’t matter who they bat there they all stink…


On a positive note, if we go out in order in the 1st, at least Hayes will have a batter ahead of him in the 2nd to squeeze in a snack.


It makes no sense but the press won’t ask and Shelton wouldn’t answer anyway. To paraphrase him, if he ever explained what they were doing, opponents would take advantage of that information.


Nobody can be that stupid, can they?

Wilbur: I thought Gamel did well early, but after the trading deadline, I could not see why he and others were still on the active roster.

Wilbur Miller

It was the same last year. He had one outstanding month and otherwise was consistently mediocre at best. He’s just not very good, no more than AAA depth for a contender, but the occasional good stretch and diving catch have some fans and sportswriters thinking he’s much better than he is.


If they indeed tried to shop him at the deadline, and couldn’t find any takers, that’s all you need to know about his “value”.

He was a good pickup last year and played adequately this year in the overall context of the teams’ expectations, but these ABs have an opportunity cost now.


Cruz is a mystery to me when he is at bat. He can swing at pitches 5″ off the plate as if they are strikes and than watch pitches right in the middle of the zone, extremely hit able pitches and take them for strikes. He seems undisciplined to me. then out of the blue he launches a Cruz missile for a home run. If he can figure out the strike zone and and not chase he can become one of the premier home run hitters in baseball. will he? only time will tell but I hope so.


What it shows to me is that he is not prepared when he goes to the plate, doesn’t know what the pitcher throws and when he throws his pitches. He is strictly relying on his natural ability…

Wilbur Miller

If you’ve read interviews with him, this clearly isn’t true.


Sorry, but actions speak louder than words…show at the plate, and then I will believe until then it is what it is…swinging at the breeze or not swinging at all and looking clueless…Next year is his prove the skeptics wrong year…


They need to move cruz to the outfield. His bat is going to be a big time weapon moving forward, but his defense will always cost the pirates runs. I would try cruz in centerfield and move Reynolds to left field. I think that move would help the pirates more than almost any free agent signing.


Hayes having a snack while one of the runs scored opitimizes this organization.


Never thought I’d see someone actually deflect on his actions there, but here we are.


It was inconsequential and I’m not worked up about it in the least. Having said that, the play was still in progress. There was a batter possibly advancing to second base. It’s just a bad look. Key has 20-25 seconds to grab some seeds between pitches or on a foul ball. Just don’t know why he’s doing in mid-play.

Last edited 11 days ago by 1979andCounting
Wilbur Miller

It’s not good, but if the owner, GM and mgr. could care less about winning, why should the players? I’ve worked in enough large organizations to know that the culture starts at the top.


I am sure that Trout or Judge or Goldschmidt etc. have had their snack in the field before, I mean golfers do it all the time…

John Dreker

In the field and during play is completely different. No one cares that he had sunflower seeds on him or that he has them at any break. It’s the fact that the play was going on and right in front of him and he had his glove off and breaks for snack time. His actions were only inconsequential after the play was over and he wasn’t involved, but before that anything can happen with the runner coming towards him, the throw being offline.

I think it just looks worse that the play was in his direction, but really it didn’t need any help looking worse. Pretty standard not to eat mid-play and it became a big deal because no one has ever seen a snack break while things are going on. He was ten seconds removed from a good time to eat them and five seconds away from the next good time, who needs sunflower seeds that bad that they can’t go upwards of 20 seconds without them?

To me it was shocking that it was him, but there’s not a person who could have done it during play where it’s okay. And that’s not even just at the big league level, that’s something you might see in Little League and it dawns on you that your son will never make it to the majors and live out your dream. That’s something they write into a movie to show how bad things are for a team before they turn it around. Picture Bob Uecker in Major League 4 saying Mets are scoring runs, our third baseman is eating sunflower seeds in the middle of the play (Bob, they are a sponsor), I don’t care, no one is listening anyway.

Last edited 11 days ago by John Dreker

It does sound like a scene out of Major League or Angels in the Outfield, or even Bad News Bears. Can you imagine the talk if Castro or Cruz had done something like that? I wonder how Shelton will handle this?


Red Sox Designate Kevin Plawecki For Assignment…HMMM…


He’s a FA after the season.


ok. so what…probably more than half the team are FA’s after this year…what’s one more…and I am not saying they should or should not sign him just posting that he is available, and has Boston connections much like the esteemed GM of the Pirates…


So what? So you’d claim a catcher for the last two weeks of the season when he doesn’t know our staff just so you wouldn’t need to watch Delay or Heineman? Now if you want to discuss whether he’d be worth signing as a FA, that can be open to debate (I’d disagree but at least it would be worth discussing).


As I have been saying all year this team is a 100+ loss team and will be for the foreseeable future give or take, hopefully not forever…

This team is young but very undisciplined, I do not know if any really have a clue when hitting or just playing the game in general, the game the other night was just ridiculous, maybe they need Fred Flintstone bats, but they just seem to be clueless and just guessing…

The SP has improved a bit and it appears that the Pirates have 3 SP going forward, but the bullpen is a mess, as it happens often with teams. The question is where the 3 SP going to come from and NO it will not be from FA other than maybe another 1 yr rental, which is not the way to go but it’s the Pirate way…They will not spend the monies necessary to put a winning team on the field, History proves that out…

b mcferren

resign Cantina
sign Sano to DH
sign Trevor Bauer


Well, I don’t know who Cantina is other than a place to get a drink in the Wild West

Sano is a lard ass and has been hurt more than healthy NO

Bauer well if you want to beat up someone then absolutely, but if you are trying to make the Pirates better another NO…

Wilbur Miller

Even if I didn’t find Bauer totally repugnant, which I do, how on earth do the Pirates need a distraction like that?

b mcferren

better than watching Brubaker and Bryce Wilson pitch another inning

Wilbur Miller

No, it’s not.

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