Pirates Discussion: Back on Losing Skid

After sweeping the Cincinnati Reds in four games, the Pittsburgh Pirates are now on the verge of being swept in four by the New York Mets.

Bryse Wilson started the latest game and had a very Bryse Wilson start.

He managed to last 5.1 innings, while allowing four earned runs. He served up four hits, with the big one being a three-run HR in the second by Eduardo Escobar. He struck out five batters but also walked two while hitting another two.

The fourth run came in the sixth inning when Wilson left the game with a runner on and one out for Eric Stout. A couple pitches didn’t go Stout’s way, but he also wasn’t displaying the best control, walking the bases loaded before walking in the inherited runner.

Chase De Jong covered the final two innings for the Pirates. He didn’t have his best stuff on the night while allowing an earned run. He only gave up one hit, but he had three walks to three strike outs while hitting Jeff McNeil twice. Pirates pitchers combined to walk eight hitters and hit another four.

Ten days after giving up one run in seven innings, Mets pitcher Chris Bassitt had his way again with the Pirates offense, going six shutout innings.

The Pirates only run in the 5-1 game came in the ninth when Rodolfo Castro connected for his 10th HR of the season. Castro had three of the Pirates four hits falling a triple shy of the cycle. A Bryan Reynolds single was the only other hit to go along with his three strikeouts.

Pirates @ Mets

Time: 1:40 PM EST

Pirates Starter: Johan Oviedo (3-2, 3.34)

Mets Starter: Jacob deGrom (5-2, 2.01)

Oviedo Notes: In his previous start, Johan Oviedo tossed five innings of shut out baseball against the Reds with only a single hit. Oviedo was able to collect his first Pirates victory in the start while walking two and striking out four. It was a step in the right direction after getting knocked out in the second inning against these same Mets in the start before. He’ll look to salvage a victory for the Pirates while getting retribution against the Mets.




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Tied the record for K’s couldn’t even do that right…

John Dreker

Can we talk about how crazy baseball can be sometimes? deGrom has 13 K’s in 5 innings and then gives up hits to Zack Collins, Jason Delay and then a home run to the easiest guy to strikeout in baseball? With how he was pitching, he should have sat those three down on nine pitches. It’s like he owned the Pirates, which in turn made him part of the team, and then he did the most Pirates thing possible. That’s an event you can only sum up with #baseball


Well the irrational fear engendered by the sweep of the Reds has been thoroughly snuffed out.

Wilbur Miller

This is a seriously bad bullpen. The scary thing is, this is the easiest part of a team to build on the cheap, and it works best if a team is willing to keep rebuilding its pen over and over. So neither a cheap owner nor being in a rebuild explains having a bad bullpen. The Pirates have a bad bullpen solely because Cheringtoon is incompetent.


Where have you been? This is a seriously bad organization and has been for years.


Huntington almost always gave us a decent pen so that we didn’t have to endure many of these late-inning, painful losses. Ben needs a little humility and a lot of help. Since I have zero confidence that Williams will do anything other than PR work, the best we can hope for is that Cherington will bring in some additional staff. If he hadn’t likely burned a bridge with his former friend Huntington by poking fun at him during an early presser, then maybe he could have brought Neal back as “bullpen builder”. Where did Neal end up? Oh yeah, Cleveland which just happens to be 5th in the majors in bullpen WAR.


Losing Bednar killed them this year.

The ’08, ’09, and ’10 pens were every bit as bad overall but had Capps and Hanny holding down the precious few wins available to them.

“Closers” might be overrated or whatever the argument is but it abbbbsolutely makes an enormous difference having a really f’ng good reliever to finish baseball games when you’re leading.

Last edited 11 days ago by NMR

As of July 29, Bednar’s last game, the Pirates’ relievers were 27th in xFIP; they’re now 30th. So, yes, losing Bednar obviously hurt but they were bad with Bednar. You’re right, though, that Huntington’s early bullpens weren’t anything special. Maybe Ben will improve and I do think there is a lot of potential in house for next season.

Wilbur Miller

It’s not losing Bednar. Since he went out, I count a dozen losses (out of 30 since then) that can justifiably be pinned on the bullpen. (Well, obviously, the crappy hitting played a role in many of the games. And the crappy fielding. And the crappy baserunning. And sometimes crappy starts. But I tried to find games where the bullpen gave up the decisive runs.) Of those, there were only four where Bednar could have made the difference. Most of the time the problems are coming before he’d be in, often well before. And, of course, there’ve been lots of other games where the bullpen’s contribution was bad, but they clearly would have lost anyway.


It’s a lot more than 4 games Bednar would have impacted. It threw the whole pen into different roles. It allowed some AAA or waiver claims to get rostered. It caused some to pitch 2 innings when it would have only been one otherwise. It caused overuse of some, to cover for his absence.

Wilbur Miller

If you look through game by game, this just isn’t true. More waiver claims? They ALL suck. And how many innings do you think he’d pitch in six weeks? They already needed to reduce his workload. You’re talking about 12-15 IP, and some of those would have been in mop up situations because he needed work since they never had a lead.

Sorry, Bednar’s loss didn’t cost this team a playoff spot. 12-15 IP from a guy who was already showing signs of wear didn’t have a major impact. It’s utter fantasy to think it could have meant more than one or two more wins. It’s bad enough when fans argue that “one big bat” could mean 20-30 more wins, but this is seriously delusional.


Valiant effort at looking back at all 30 games, but it’s impossible guesswork to reconstruct what exact strings Shelton and Marin would have pulled if Bednar was present. Without doing any homework, I recall we blew 2 games, maybe 3 in the last AB by the Blue Jays. DeJong would not have been facing the Cards in the 9th last week with a lead that he blew. Same with Underdog. Just using reasonable averages, Bednar has earned 17 saves in 40 appearances in less than 4 months of play. He’s now missed over a month and a half. Having a healthy Bednar should have translated to 6 – 8 saves. And likely kept other guys in their comfort zones and more fresh leading up to Bednar. No one’s talking about a playoff team, but I am talking about a difference between 62 and 70 wins.


Probably similar, though to a lesser extent with holdermann and yerry being out. Both those guys could have won us a few extra games even if bednar was out. To me that shows we have a solid beginning of bullpen construction, but badly need more depth to absorb some injuries or ineffectiveness


Of course you get it, ‘79.


Or even worse, like his boss he just flat doesn’t care.


Judge at 59 HR, and 2 games coming up with the Pirates…


Duane “Never a clean inning” Underwood…….and we didn’t even need a full inning out of him.


Two balls thrown into CF by Delay. Can’t give the extra base and winning run to Gore there.


Just tuned in. 18 Ks by the Bucs?!?


19 and counting…that’s just shameful…even a low minor league team probably wouldn’t strike that much…just shameful…


Just joining the game in 7th. Glad I missed the whiff-a-thon. Kudos to Cruz though against one of the best in the business!

Wilbur Miller

Obviously, Cruz is totally clueless, ’cause clueless hitters have no prayer against a guy like DeGrom.


Do you get off on winning fights against no one?


I’ve never heard someone just continually bitch and moan about the same shit over and over. He needs to find another team to cover.

Wilbur Miller

Is it really even necessary to play this game?


Are you talking about the Pirates or the Steelers??

Wilbur Miller

There’s a similarity on offense.

b mcferren

baseball fights are really dumb

why can’t they just let them duke it out between the mound and the batters box?


Indeed, the dumbest part are the bullpen, running along each other. Are you gonna fifth or just out for a group jog!

b mcferren

that at bat is a perfect example of why he never should swing the bat as hard as he can


Being a new yorker I don’t get to see many Pirate games during the year. So this week I got to see three in a row and have to admit that I am not missing anything. this team is unwatchable and I give you all credit for watching all the games televised locally. Strike outs by the batters seems contagious, especially looking at pitches in the middle of the plate belt high. tell me is the hitting coach telling them to take those pitches or are they just incapable of swinging at them? Since 1960 I have been rooting for this team and had seen years of great teams and players to root for but recently they have become a laughing stock. Another 100 loss season awaits. Very sad.

Wilbur Miller

Funny how, when Dumbo finally sits Gamel, it’s against possibly the game’s best pitcher. If his veteranosity was so vital, you’d think this is when you’d most want him in the lineup.


It was scheduled 3 months ago, some people are good at planning!


Just a thought, maybe the actual Prodigal Son is actually Castro, and Cruz is really only a 2 trick Pony. Trick One HR and Trick Two KKKKKKKKK…


Or maybe it’s both.


Son implies just a single individual, now it could be neither, but I stick with Cruz being a 2 trick pony…


We’re now 13-40 (.245) against playoff-bound teams. I don’t think we’re as close to contending as Cherington and Shelton like to say, despite the number of 2-run losses or whatever metric they’re using to justify those statements.


This team is stuck in suck. Arizona is taking steps forward, Baltimore has taken steps forward, shit even the Cubs seem to be in better shape than this team, it seems that Cincy, Oakland and Detroit (injuries) are gonna keep us from the having the worse record again next year since I’m sure the Nationals will spend.

Wilbur Miller

Yeah, but they love working with each other. That’s an area where they’ve had lots of success. All this stuff about scoring runs and allowing runs . . . it’s just one minor part of the game. People who focus on that are missing so much.


Every time I hear either talk my colon feels bloated…

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