According to Dan Connolly of The Baltimore Sun, the Pittsburgh Pirates and Baltimore Orioles are in the middle of trade talks that involve outfielder Travis Snider. It’s a trade the two teams looked into last year. According to Connolly’s sources, the deal isn’t done, but could involve two minor league players that aren’t on the 40-man roster. Check back for any updates.
acdg to source Os are closing in on the framework of deal to get Snider from the Pirates. Os encouraged it happens for a minor leaguer or 2
— Dan Connolly (@danconnolly2016) January 27, 2015
UPDATE 5:53 PM: Connolly updated his own tweet and said that the deal could be done within the next day.
Updating my own tweet: A Travis Snider deal w Pitts could get done within the next day — still being worked on. http://t.co/3ABFmXs5wH
— Dan Connolly (@danconnolly2016) January 27, 2015
UPDATE 5:57 PM: Connolly says that it should be one or two minor leaguers, and that they’re not thought to be 40-man guys or top prospects.
Hearing #Orioles would send one or 2 minor leaguers to Pitts for Snider. Could be only one. Not thought to be 40-man guy or top prospects
— Dan Connolly (@danconnolly2016) January 27, 2015
UPDATE 6:00 PM: Thoughts from Tim Williams…
This is the second time that we’ve heard the Snider-to-Baltimore rumors. The first time came during the Winter Meetings, when the Pirates were rumored to be going after Brian Matusz. That same day they traded for Antonio Bastardo, filling their second lefty role in the bullpen, and the Snider talks died down.
The potential return, as described by Connolly, doesn’t sound appealing. Snider is coming off a huge second half, where he posted a .289/.353/.510 line in 224 plate appearances, with ten homers. He ranked third in wOBA and wRC+ for the Pirates in the second half of the season.
It’s no guarantee that Snider will repeat that success in 2015. But he’s relatively cheap (making $2.1 M in 2015), has one more year of control beyond the 2015 season, and is a great backup plan for the Pirates, adding to what is looking like a very strong bench.
Gregory Polanco is the starter in right field, putting Snider on the bench. However, Snider is around if Polanco continues to struggle adjusting to the majors. He is also an injury replacement for either Starling Marte or Andrew McCutchen. Marte is the bigger injury risk of the two, as he is constantly getting hit by pitches. If Snider’s second half was legit, then he’s a great backup if any of these scenarios play out.
Connolly says that the trade would likely come from Baltimore’s “solid minor league pitching core.” That’s where this doesn’t make sense. The Pirates also have a solid core of pitchers, especially in the upper levels. They currently project to have six potential starters in Indianapolis, once Jameson Taillon returns, which means that someone like Casey Sadler or Brandon Cumpton would get moved to the bullpen.
The Pirates need Snider’s depth in the majors more than they need an extra pitching prospect in the minors. The only way this would make sense is if they either received a better return than Connolly is describing, or if they believed that they could easily replace Snider in the majors, while getting an extra pitching prospect for him.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out, since right now there are a lot of possibilities.
UPDATE 6:25 PM: Connolly says that left-handed pitcher Steven Brault is a possibility if Snider gets traded.
One name in #Orioles #Pirates poss trade inv Travis Snider is 22yo LHP Steven Brault, an 11th rounder in 2013. Was at Delmarva/Fred in 2014
— Dan Connolly (@danconnolly2016) January 27, 2015
Sense is if Orioles end up acquiring Snider and give up a 2nd prospect it would be a hitter. Class A LHP Steven Brault is one option to go
— Dan Connolly (@danconnolly2016) January 27, 2015
Brault wasn’t in Baseball America’s top ten, and ranked as the 16th best prospect in John Sickel’s rankings. He received a C+ rating, borderline C, and was described as a potential back-end starter. He had good numbers in A-ball last year, and should make the jump to Double-A this year.
That, alone, doesn’t seem like it’s worth dealing Snider. The second player would have to be good to make such a deal worthwhile. And it appears that the Orioles are trying to get this done without giving up two players.
#orioles are trying to do "less" than 2 minor leaguers in exchange for Snider, according to a source.
— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) January 27, 2015
UPDATE: 7:40 PM: Rob Biertempfel mentions two more names that he has heard as possibilities, both pitchers. The first is 21-year-old left-hander Stephen Tarpley, who had a 3.68 ERA in 66 innings this year with Aberdeen in the NYPL. He was a 3rd round draft pick of the Orioles in 2013. Tarpley was ranked as the 12th best prospect in the Orioles system by John Sickels.
The second name is an interesting one, Jon Keller, who is the older brother of Mitch Keller. The elder Keller is a 6’5″ righty, who had a 1.59 ERA and 66 strikeouts in 56.2 innings for Delmarva this year. The 22-year-old had an 0.94 WHIP in Low-A and made two late season appearances in High-A ball. The younger Keller was the second round pick of the Pittsburgh Pirates in 2014 and signed for a $1,000,000 bonus.
UPDATE 8:22 PM: Multiple Sources are reporting that the deal is done and one of the players returning to the Pirates is pitcher Stephen Tarpley. We posted information on Tarpley at the bottom of this article. His MiLB page can be found here.
Source: Travis Snider deal to Baltimore believed to be done. Class A pitcher Stephen Tarpley one of the prospects going to the Pirates.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 28, 2015
UPDATE 8:38 PM: The deal is done. Travis Snider to the Orioles for pitcher Stephen Tarpley and a player to be named later. Something we didn’t mention before with Tarpley is his impressive 1.95 GO/AO ratio. He also improved as the season went along, posting a 2.56 ERA in five August starts, after putting up a 7.36 ERA in his first five games.
Orioles give up LHP Stephen Tarpley and a PTBNL for Travis Snider.
— Dan Connolly (@danconnolly2016) January 28, 2015
UPDATE 8:56 PM: There is a good write-up of Tarpley here on Fangraphs, including the fact that he has hit 97 MPH with his fastball and “a low 80’s curve that flashes plus.”
John started working at Pirates Prospects in 2009, but his connection to the Pittsburgh Pirates started exactly 100 years earlier when Dots Miller debuted for the 1909 World Series champions. John was born in Kearny, NJ, two blocks from the house where Dots Miller grew up. From that hometown hero connection came a love of Pirates history, as well as the sport of baseball.
When he didn't make it as a lefty pitcher with an 80+ MPH fastball and a slider that needed work, John turned to covering the game, eventually focusing in on the prospects side, where his interest was pushed by the big league team being below .500 for so long. John has covered the minors in some form since the 2002 season, and leads the draft and international coverage on Pirates Prospects. He writes daily on Pittsburgh Baseball History, when he's not covering the entire system daily throughout the entire year on Pirates Prospects.
I like the trade, trusting that Huntington knows what he is doing here. With Tarpley’s development over the next couple of years he will be the next guy up as Liriano ends his journey with the Pirates. Moves right into the top 20 in our prospects and gives us something to look forward in 2017.
This one makes me scratch my head, it has to be setting up something else. Nh has earned a quite a bit of leeway so I guess we just wait for the end results.
I really never thought about it but if they think Kang is going to break out the may be planning to move Harrison in RF
Prediction: All 3 of our outfielders will hit over .280 all 3 will hit at least 18 Hrs and steal atleast 25 bases. Marte will be an all-star and win a gold glove Mark it down
I love this prediction!!!
I don’t think the Pirates would have done this without a great feel for what Polanco is going to do. I’m guessing he’s done a lot of work this off season and he’s looking good . I bet they also have been paying attention to whoever just turned into the 4th OF’er
I agree, I think Polanco has generally started out strong, and will do so again this year. In 2014, he played winter ball prior to season and was the MVP. Think he suffered some burn out last year. He should be a much more mature, rested and pleasant addition to our lineup this season.
“Rob Biertempfel ✔ @BiertempfelTribFollow
Unprompted mention of “payroll flexibility” by #Pirates GM makes me think perhaps something more is brewing , ”
It would make sense if something else is brewing
After reading all the comments, I see a lot of people complaining about the trade. You guys do realize this is the same Travis Snider that many on this site wanted released last year before his 2nd half? I like the return even before knowing the PTNL when not long ago Snider couldn’t have returned anything. I also feel Lambo can fill his spot.
From reading the scouting reports, Tarpley sounds like another guy whom should never be in the same room with Tabata 🙂
Maybe it could help Tarpley, they say he needs to put an extra 15 pounds on.
I think part of this may be that they don’t want Polanco looking over his shoulder. I think the PTNL could be Brian Gonzalez. A big Left handed kid who throws hard. We know it is someone from last year’s draft.
I love the confidence in Polanco and I believe he will reward that confidence. I also feel Lambo can be very similar to Snider. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Snider do quite well in Baltimore.
Overall, I think Neal wanted to max out on Snider’s value and probably feels Lambo can put up similar results.
Well, at least it creates some kind of buzz for an empty spot on the 25 man roster…lol
I hate to see Snider go, but…in the interest of fairness…I’d like to cross-reference all the “Snider should not have been traded” posts with those who’ve made “Give Lambo a shot!” over the past months.
I’m one that wants to give Lambo a shot, but I also don’t like this trade. I don’t think they needed Sean Rodriguez or Floriman and they all seemed to have the jump on Lambo. Most likely Lambo will get the Snider spot with his ability to be the 4th outfielder and also cover at 1st base when needed
If this is the case, then the trade really is: Snider for Tarpley, Lambo, and PTBNL…and I think that makes it a little more palatable as there was no other way Lambo, barring injury, was going to make the team…let alone get at-bats if he did.
Florimon was a freebie, so I can’t find fault with that acquisition. I do agree with you about Rodriguez, but that was before the Bucs knew they’d get Kang…so, at the time…it made sense.
Without knowing the PTBNL, I won’t comment on the trade. However, I will make mention of all the Harrison comments.
Last season he was playing well and in search of a position. He moved all around and, when Pedro fell apart, he was planted at third. That’s his position now. If he’s playing well in 2015, I doubt the Bucs will shift him around the field and play him in a super-sub manner. So, no…I don’t think it’s fair to assume he’s the 4th OF if one of the top three don’t/can’t perform.
He’s an option though.. do we even know what jhay’s preference even is? It could be he loves the zobrist roll
If he’s playing well and someone goes down…he’s the third baseman. If he’s not playing well and someone goes down, that’s two problems for the team.
Even with some of Clint’s craziest calls considered, I don’t think he’s going to pull a solid player and stick him into a different position. Harrison is a third baseman now…and will be as long as his bat and D allow him to be.
I agree, I do not hear too many folks talking about how this makes the Pirates better right now. But I think something was left out of this trade. Baltimore should have been required to take Tabata and pay his salary as well.
I like Snider but this trade works for me. We have a lot of outfield depth but as Tim pointed out himself the other day we really don’t have any left handed pitching prospects.
if the goal is to have the best farm system in baseball this was a good trade, if the goal is to win a playoff series and maybe the world series this is not a good trade. It’s a long season and they will regret not having the depth/bench that Snider brings. I guess if you have to win something you might as well get booby prize
this could easily give kang at bats at 3b when an outfielder rests.. it’s not the end of the season. . Relax partner
I know, it just seems stupid to downgrade now, it does little to help the future
The term downgrade is relative though.. Huntington has always stated he’ll have one eye looking ahead and he’ll weigh each move appropriately. . losing your 4th OF when you have jhay that can roll out there isn’t huge.. not to mention 4th outfielders aren’t hard to find at the trade deadline.. it may turn out to provide the at bats others needed
that can happen, but then you have to pull him from 3rd, right now we arn’t sure how Kang will do.
We’re not sure how snider will do.. you can only put one player on the field
Snider was finally healthy, he was more a known commodity than Lambo or whoever replaces him, it raises the need to get lucky and have an unkown factor perform better then expected
He wasn’t going to get at bats for an extended time.. kang was getting the first crack at everyday at bats anyhow.. made possible by jhays flexibility. . I’m not saying he was meaningless. . but he was expendable
I just agree with john Drecker says in the article; ‘The Pirates need Snider’s depth in the majors more than they need an extra pitching prospect in the minors.” I’m not sure what information this trade was made on, that they now think some will step up and fill Sniders shoes without having to take a step back
their 2015 is not so dire that their only hope is a booby prize sir…
This was about a lack of left handed starting pitching at the minor league level. Of course it sacrifices short term for long term. But after 20 consecutive losing seasons, I think a little better long term planning is well worth it.
As they say – Rome wasn’t built in a day
not making moves like this is not what led to 20 losing seasons, down the road a number 3 starter wouldn’t be to hard to pick up as a free agent
You can’t come to a final conclusion on any trade for 3-5 years, when the trade involves young players or prospects. In my dreams, I was hoping we were getting Christian Walker or Chance Sisco in return, but overall I don’t dislike the trade for a few reasons:
(1) It does partly replenish the system – especially with a LH starter – after trading Taylor, Rodriguez, and Borden. Tarpley appears to be a quality prospect with potential. I don’t, however, expect the PTBNL to be as good as a prospect as Tarpley – based on what I am reading so far. But, who knows.
(2) Although Snider has always been a pretty productive player, other than about 6-8 weeks in June, July, August last year he really has not been a very productive player for the Pirates. He appeared to be a guy headed to the waiver wire or the minors until June of last year. So, going forward, is Snider the player who was redhot for 2-3 months last Summer, or the player more indicative of the rest of his career to date?
(3) Barring that he starts looking like a bust, Polanco is going to be the starting RF next year – so Snider would be 4th outfielder and pinch-hitter. We will miss his pinch-hitting prowess, but I think we have 3-4 good internal options for a productive 4th outfielder – Lambo, Rojas, Kang, Tabata, Broxton, and gulp, Decker. If Lambo makes the team as a first baseman along with Hart, I think the 4th outfielder will likely be Rojas or Tabata. I like Rojas – he can run well, is a good outfielder, is also a switch-hitter, and has paid his dues. I hope he takes advantage of the opportunity in the Spring.
(4) I will miss Snider’s pinch-hitting and blue collar approach to the game. He’s a guy its easy to root for, because he always provides great effort and hustle.
If we have to wait 3-5 years to find out if this trade was good it means it’s a failure. If the player that fills Snider’s role this year does not perform or we’re down to depending on Jaff Decker to start on a regular basis in Sept we will know it was a bad choice.
Well, Tarpley is probably 3 years away, at least, from a shot at the majors – so, how do you propose assessing this trade before then? As for RF, even if he fails to live up the enormous hype, Polanco will still likely be an upgrade over Snider. he runs better, fields better – all he has to do is hit .260 or higher and hit 15 or more HRs. Not a high bar.
As for Decker, there have to be at least 3-4 internal options ahead of Decker – Lambo, Tabata, Rojas, etc.
You are way over valuing Travis Snider!!!
Wouldn’t you have liked at least the opportunity to find out if Snider is the player from 2nd half 2014? Because if he is (and he does have the pedigree, despite the lack of results until last year), then the Bucs would’ve been able to get more.
As it is, I think the bench just took a substantial hit.
Well, no one has a crystal ball, so we will have to wait to find out. Just like we don’t know how a guy like Lambo or Rojas will produce, if given opportunity to fill Snider’s spot. I do agree, in the short-term at least, that we did take a hit in the pinch-hitting department .
The only way you were going to find out if Snider is the player from 2nd half 2014 is if Polanco struggles. And so, you are keeping Snider on the anticipation that Polanco struggles or you never find out what you have in Snider – it’s a no win situation.
Yup.. if the motivation was to get the most out of snider Polanco would start in AAA.. that wasn’t going to be the case
Is it automatic that Lambo moves onto the 25 man roster to take Snyder’s spot? I presume that Kang replaces Florimon as the middle infield depth.
I have less concern about Snider performing, I think he will be at least an average right fielder when he plays for the Orioles, and I love the way the guy plays baseball, but I just don’t see him staying healthy if he plays everyday. It seems that many guys that have hamstring issues (especially more than one), continue to have them.
I also don’t see an issue with stocking up on some more pitching in the minors. Many thought we were set on prospects filling up our rotation and we still needed 2 acquisitions, counting Liriano’s re-signing this year to tidy up the starting 5.
That being said, I really liked having Snider on the bench just in case Polanco fails or for the inevitable 1 to 2 DL stints for Marte. So, I guess I am right back where I started…
Great Move Huntington—-I simply never understood Bucs fans Bromance with Lunchbox. I’m shocked we were able to get anything in return for him
it’s a downgrade in the meantime,
Do we know that? Lambo could be just as good or better than Snider. Before the 2nd half last year, many people wanted Snider released.
He took a cheap shot from Maldanado when he ran out of the dugout in that Milwaukee game. He hit well as a pinch hitter. He has a good arm in right field.
Was finally healthy the 2nd half of the year and played well. Huntington parlayed that 2nd half to get the O’s #9 prospect and possibly the 21st. Both LHP. Good player for 2 good prospects. Will find out in 2-3 yrs how good this deal was for the Bucs.
lambo can replace snider and also play some 1b
I don’t see how this gets described as anything other than Travis Snider for Sean Rodriguez, net result. Tarpley seems like a very Buddy Borden-esque prospect, both in terms of level and skill. We moved Borden for Rodriguez and replaced him with Tarpley for Snider. I would rather have had Snider than Rodriguez, especially given the addition of Kang in the midst of all this. Now our OF depth at the ML level is shaky at best, and we have 5 guys who could potentially be starters for the three positions of 2B, 3B and SS, as well as Alen Hanson knocking at the door. Not to mention I simply think Snider has shown a higher upside than Rodriguez has in the majors. Maybe Lambo will take a step forward though, who knows.
Well 1) the trade isn’t complete yet and 2) we wouldn’t have traded for Rodriguez if we knew we were going to get Kang. Therefore it’s a pointless and meaningless statement quite honestly. Look at this as replenishing a lefty who might have more upside than Borden, adding an additional player beyond that, and freeing up an opportunity for another younger player who could potentially do more than Snider was going to. Lambo has no value right now, but if he can hit 10 homers and give us an OPS over .750 and play outfield and first base, he has value for us, and to trade. You have to develop players and trade from depth, and that’s what we are doing.
i miss Snider already. The guy showed his potential in the 2014 second haf, when he finally had a chance to play everyday. But I FULLY trust Mr Huntington and staff in their appraisal of talent (eg, Brad Lincoln for Travis SNider trade).
This is just very surprising to me; who, now, is our dependable #4 OF?
Why do we need a “dependable #4 ” when we have 4 players that we can develop into a dependable #4
“I am the player to be named later”
– Crash Davis
Not sure why the Pirates would want to potentially downgrade the bench for a couple players that are 5 years away from the bigs if they make it. Yes, they can shuffle if they need to, but they have still given up some depth and considering they are a contender not sure why they downgraded instead of upgrading. There almost has to be another move to follow this.
Why? You aren’t trading an all-star here, damn near everyone on the team including A.J. Burnett can play right field if necessary in PNC park.
with that you could trade about 20 on the current roster and say it won;t make a difference, if that’s the case the could take anyone off the AAA and place them there to save money and spend in on other players. Also a right fielder allows Mccutchen to shade towards the gap in left center
Agree.. we should trade marte or polanco because of this
These guys will both already be 22 in another month. If they are planning on keeping them in the minors for 5 more years, I think you can say they already lost the trade. Tarpley is pretty old for the levels that he played at so far, I hope they see some room for aggresiveness.
Tarpley would likely be at morgantown this year, with an opportunity to jump to Bradenton if he shows the consistency they want, which gives us 2016 at Altoona and a possible 2017 call up if not then 2018 pretty likely barring injury. That’s what to expect.
it’s not likely that Tarpley or the Ptbnl will be an all star either, so we really did nothing to protect our future, why sacrifice now, this is a downgrade to the bench and depth of the team
What is his stuff like? I presume he will not get a spring invite this year and so no video of him pitching / warming up will be available for a while.
you must be being sarcastic to think he will get a spring invite, he’s 2-3 years away from that
Stranger things have happened. Robbie Grossman received a spring invite in January of 2012 after spending the previous year (2011) in single A Bradenton. I am not predicting it will happen, just that it’s a remote possibility.
Up and down off season for Lambo, looks like he’s back in now
There has to be more to this. This looks terrible on the surface. Snider was a lifesaver last year. What if marte is hurt again, or cutch, or polonco struggles. He was cheap and good.
If Polanco struggles, he will STILL be better than Snider. Defense, running, arm- those never struggle and Snider can’t hold a candle to him in those 3 tools. Hitting, and Power are the only tho considerations, and if Polanco struggles, he’ll still be hitting about what Snider has hit damn near every year of his career, so what exactly are we worried about? Harrison can play out there just fine or have you forgotten? Kang or Rodriguez or even Alvarez can go to third. This isn’t that hard guys
Ok ok… fair enough. The fact that they got a LHP prospect in return certainly helps justify the move.
So the question now is whether 1) there is another move coming to fill that 25th roster spot, or 2) GMNH likes Lambo/Tabata/Rojas/Hernandez for that last spot on the bench.
If nothing else, Spring Training just became slightly more interesting, but just slightly.
Well Kang can play 3B, Harrison in the OF, not saying I like it yet, but I bet that is something close to their thinking.
It depends on who the ptbnl is. Too early to determine this trade. Can’t properly judge until we know who the other player is
Done deal; “It’s been a quiet offseason for the Orioles in terms of outfield additions, but the team announced today that it has struck a deal to acquire Travis Snider from the Pirates in exchange for Class-A left-hander Stephen Tarpley and a player to be named later.”
Seems fair. Tarpley has a #3 ceiling according to Baseball Prospectus. their #9 in the O’s’ system.
He’s a lefty and he seems to have some strong upside, I am fine with it. I am really encouraged that now we have a position battle for a 4th outfielder. Too bad we couldn’t package tabata in that deal
I like this deal. Here’s John Sickels’ take on Tarpley, who he ranks as their #12 prospect.
12) Stephen Tarpley, LHP, Grade C+: Age
21, third round pick in 2013, another Sleeper Alert choice, live-armed
lefty posted 3.66 ERA with 60/24 K/BB in 66 innings in short-season
ball. Inconsistent but athletic with good fastball and curve, finished
the season very strongly after some mechanical adjustments.
For those that haven’t seen it reported, the deal is done. Stephen Tarpley 21 year old LHSP prospect and PTBNL are the return.
I wonder if Snider!s feelings or attitude towards being a fourth OF play into trading him. The pirates need lh pitchers and hitters in the minors, so I would be ok with moving him for that reason. They also have Lambo who would be happy to be a fourth of. Plus Tabata could be long term fill in incase of injury.
The only reason I could see the Pirates trading Snider and the depth he brings would be that they want to open a roster spot to sign a free agent they are eyeing.
Deal done. Stephen Tarpley coming our way per Jeff Passan
PTBNL as well
Reported here first. Tim Williams, I think I’d be a great add to your website 😉
I think it’s a decent return. Left-handed starting pitcher. Put up less than amazing numbers as a 21 year old in short season A ball last year. Interested to see who the PTBNL is. Wondering if it was a draft pick from this past year?
Just hope it is Pat Connaughton.
That would be great, although probably unlikely as the Orioles were trying to get away with only one prospect. Doubt it would be two of their top 20.
fingers crossed for Keller
I cannot see any need to trade Snider for minor league pitching, considering the makeup of the current MLB roster. IMO, Snider will see well more than 200 PAs this year if he remains with the Bucs. And as he showed solid ability to hit LHP pitching last year and was an excellent PH, he’s playing a much needed role that I don’t believe SRod or Kang can fill easily, if at all.
I do not like.
And you really think Travis Snider is the difference between winning and losing ? Wow….. is all I have to say.
Leo… with all due respect, you actually posted that as a rebuttal? That because he’s not the difference between winning and losing he’s expendable for whatever Neal can get – and in this case, a couple of guys who are DEFINITELY not going to help the Bucs win anything in 201 as they won’t be up for 2-3 years.
C’mon man. You can do better.
Snider has a career .698 OPS vs LHP, and the problem is his OPS vs RHP isn’t much better. A good front office isn’t myopic, considering only the short term and what Snider did in the last 2 months playing baseball.
Andrew… as of yet (11:18pm, Jan 27, 2015) nobody has stepped forward to suggest how Snider leaving actually improves the 2015 Pirates (whom I will remind you are a playoff contender).
Have you consider it possible that you are over valuing Snider and optimistically projecting his production. Maybe given the other options the Pirates consider Snider expendable.
that’s my issue. I know the Pirates are in a situation the have to be conscious of the future, This wasn’t one of those situations we needed to protect our future with
hello mr obvious
still mostly a downgrade in the short term and this is not the time for a downgrade. They also didn’t get blockbuster prospects, (not that I would expect any) Snider was filling his role well.
When you say short term downgrade are you referring to just the major league team or the system?
the 25 man roster, I think it downgrades the current bench and even if we have players to switch around, snider filled in well when Palanco struggled. I think we’ll wish we had him if anyone struggles or we have injuries. We are already going to have a tough time in the future protecting our prospects
the 25 has little to do with this trade
the 25 is the MLB roster and the 2015 bench and depth got a downgrade with this trade
Agree. Is someone saying the 25 was upgraded?
no, they are saying the it’s good for the Pirates in general because of the potential we get from these players. I could possibly agree we got good value out of the trade, but I don’t think we needed value now, the Pirates needed the depth that Snider brought to the table
I guess I just don’t understand why people are asking to prove the 25 is improved. . Whether you feel it should only be about the 25 is irrelevant with regards to valuing the trade.. it’s a given the 25 was hurt
You could say that for about 24 of the 25 players, that to take them out is the difference between winning and losing, Snider filled his role well, It very well could make a differnce
He only had 47 PA’s against LHP last year, although he did do quite well in those 47 PA’s. But I think it means they were limiting his exposure to lefties, and there’s probably a reason for that.
Agreed, Snider isn’t repeating that 1.054 OPS vs LHP.
I agree, I don’t like this deal. The only way that I would pull the trigger is if they offered Christian Walker but that seems highly unlikely.
Well here we go- I’m not really sure what the point of this trade is- Anyone who reads my posts knows i do not like Travis Snider. That being said, i’m not stupid and he is still young, a former #1 draft pick and top prospect and had a very strong second half to 2014. He is a good 4th outfielder, and to me, that has more value than more pitchers, UNLESS we are focusing on adding lefties, because we are seriously devoid in that category. If we can get value here, sure, do it, sure give Lambo a shot or Rojas- but lets not trade him for things we already have too much of- please
…”Im not really sure what the point of this trade is”…
PRECISELY. And neither is anyone else. We’ll start to get an idea of the point of this trade when we see the final details. I, for one, am very interested to see the other shoe drop. Much of this discussion will have been moot (ya love that future perfect tense, eh?) if and when the deal gets done.
They’ll need minor league pitching depth once they move glasnow and kingham for Strasburg
As dropping shoes go, that would be a doozy…
Think Brandon Moss as an Oakland Athletic.
Athletics, already got the next Brandon Moss.
I think the Pirates should have kept Ike Davis. I believe he is a better hitter than Pedro Alvarez.
Who might that be sir
Ike Davis, or is the next Brandon Moss likely starting on the Pirates AAA team I keep forgetting. Is it wrong to see this a proposed Snider trade and think Nyger Morgan as a National or McLouth as a Brave. Snider has 1700 PAs of being a slightly below average hitter, yes he had a great 180 plate appearances in the 2nd half with a 149 wRC+, Jose Tabata has 140 wRC+ in his last 170 PAs of 2013. My opinion is there is a lot of recency bias occurring here.
Andrew…. I am taken by your reasoning about NyJMo and Nate the Great. This has the smell of selling someone at his highest value for something maybe undervalued by the trade partner…
Ah. I actually thought that was a good landing spot for ike 🙂 they value walks and pull happy guys.. he could get his power back.. I can see the bias, I wonder if some are just saying if we’re getting so Little why not just roll the dice to see if he’s legit
I can certainly see that view, but Snider was going to start and hard to see his value being much higher. I never got the whole, what if Polanco struggles, what if Snider regresses. Wait, Ike Davis was a power pull hitter?
Ya.. if polanco was going to start I see no reason to bench him.. snider probably never gets the consistent at bats to prove added value.. I do think ike has the ability to demonstrate power if he’s given the freedom to be pull if he wants.. I actually think he’ll show himself well in oakland, similar to morneau.. another guy who struggled with the buccos all field approach
Agree with that, though important to point out that that all fields approach was new this season, Jay Bell wanted guys hunting the fastball.
Morneau came out pretty negatively with regards to the buccos all fields approach. . His comment actually brought it to my attention
Well Morneau was here last season with Bell as the hitting coach, but you are right he didn’t do anything except walk and about 3 grounders down the line for doubles.
Morneau was in Colorado winning the batting title sir..
I just confused to what you point is, Morneau was with the Pirate and played poorly when they had a hitting coach focused on gripping it an ripping it (not that the hitting coach would have much impact on a mid-season veteran acquisitions.) Then he was successful, like many contact hitters in the inflated BABIP environment of Colorado, hitting to all fields.
Sir.. I’m merely taking morneau for his word.. if you feel he had an alternative motivation then……
Excuse my ignorance but what comment?
Exactly who I keep thinking of
O’s shouldn’t give up too much for a BACK UP bench guy, former 1st rounder who never lived up to potential…..Our bench is much stronger this year with the off season additions, I’m sure guys like Kang, Rodriguez could easily replace Snider’s awful defense in RF and his .264 avg and the .338 OBP
Respectfully disagree. Lunchbox was a good player. Probably a starter at Baltimore. And he had a very good season with the glove last year. I take issue with Snyder being “awful” in defense. Just not the case.
Agreed. Not awful, just average.
And hate to see that awesome nickname leave Pgh, but I wish TS luck & success in Baltimore.
You’re joking right? Snider has a better then average glove. . If we gave up guys just cause of sniders age we’d have a different shortstop
No speed, takes awful angles, weak arm—–he’s terrible in RF
Ya.. you’re definitely joking. . Almost had me
Snider is an average outfielder at best. His lack of speed (yes, he is SLOW) prevents him from being anything but average or worse, IMO.
Having said that, I like his bat off the bench. I’d love to know what GMNH is planning for that 4th OF spot… if it’s Tabata or Lambo I’ll be disappointed.
I’ll be extremely disappointed if it’s Tabata. I want them to move on from him.
I will not be disappointed if it’s Lambo. I want to see him given a shot. I think he will be similar to Snider. Remember we are talking 4th outfielder, not a starter.
Just because the Pirates have comparable options and a top prospect in Polanco taking the reigns doesn’t mean he is any less valuable to another team. Or at least it shouldnt.
And the point is that the O’s seem to be signalling that the return will not be strong, like “less than 2 players who aren’t on the 40-man roster.” We already have Tabata – why go get someone else like that?
not every good prospect is on a 40 man roster. most aren’t. Not every prospect not on a 40 man is like Jose Tabata.
If they deal him for anything but a top 8 prospect in the orioles system, I will be severely disappointed. He is a solid back up and could be a very good bat off the bench. Don’t screw this up Bucs!
Bench bats and backups are worth a top 10 prospect?
So your telling me that solid numbers with power is something most teams have? Baltimore lost Cruz and Markakis. They need someone there and if it wasn’t for Polanco, Snider would have warranted a second chance at the start of the year to make sure the numbers were real. If he isn’t worth a top 10 prospect from a weak farm system (Baltimore has many marginal prospects), then why is he one of the best bats we have coming off the bench? Tim has said it, this is probably the best bench we have had going into the season and probably the best team we have had in many decades. I don’t want to trade a valuable piece who could see many at-bats if injuries or poor performance happens. We aren’t over valuing Snider, we are saying he is a great piece on an otherwise great shaping team!
You’re the one saying he’s a good bench bat and/or backup. I’m curious if such players are worth top 10 prospects.
he has a shot to be a league average player (2ish WAR?) with full playing time, and has 2 seasons of control, and this year is cheap at $2.1 million. I’m not asking for dylan bundy or anything, but i don’t see why he couldn’t fetch 2 guys in the 10-15 range or one guy in the 5-10 range.
2 “WinsAboveReplavement” means he is better than the average player. he brings 2 wins more than a normal replacement player, if he plays a full year as a starter I would think it would be higher
League average is about 2 WAR. “Replacement” and “average” are very different things. For example, Jordy Mercer is about an average player at shortstop. Clint Barmes is just above replacement level.
Hey, you could be right. I dunno. Seems like a lot, though, for a guy who can’t break into the Pirates OF over an unproven Polanco. As pointed out below, his projections aren’t as optimistic, but they ain’t exact science either.
Are 2ish WAR players worth 2 top ten prospects?
welp, some publications had him as their #9 prospect. so i guess i’m glad i was right haha.
He’s not worth 2 top ten prospects. There’s no way I would want the Pirates to trade 2 of our top prospects, (to be announced over the next 9 days) for a even a good player that would be a decent starter or a good bench player. Although I wouldn’t be happy if they got 2 top prospects, because I think the Pirates need a player like Snider more than they need to stock up on prospects
i said one guy who was in the top 10. or 2 guys who were lower.
and are 2 WAR players worth a top 10 prospect or 2 guys who are a little lower? I would think so (and i could be very wrong. i hope i’m not), but i don’t feel like looking for comparable trades.
However, off the top of my head, Nick Markakis is probably a ~2 WAR player and just signed a (slightly confusing) 4 year, $11 million per year contract.
Snider can very well be better for the O’s than Markakis for a fraction of the cost of a similar outfielder on the open market. i think that has a good bit of value.
He’ll be starting in baltimore
That might be because the Orioles OF situation is so bad, rather than Snider being so good.
I honestly don’t know.
Lol. Didn’t you determine his value was about whether he starts or is a bench bat in your first comment. . Not whether he was good
No. I don’t know what his value is.
They are getting pretty desperate as they struck out on Cruz and a couple of others got away also,like Rasmus and Byrd.
I agree, except that a lot of their arms are similiar. . It could be that their #16 prospect is the player huntington sees as their #8
Unless we get something really good, like Christian Walker, then I hate this deal. It had looked like the Bucs were going all in for 2015, making a great bench and a strong rotation. If it’s Snider goes so we can get some “possibly great if he overperforms what everyone thinks he’s worth player,” I’m so disappointed.
this might be a joke/trolling, but i’ll bite.
if they didn’t want a team salary of what it is, then they wouldn’t have signed Kang.
Your entire sentence applies. He is a clown.
So they can cut walkers salary.. I kid.. I kid!!!
Ha ha you are a real joke…r.
He makes $2mil a year. If you’re right, this is the most ineffective salary dump in history.
lets hope this is not the pirates way of shedding 2 Mil in salary they are so close to a real solid team now Snider would provide the depth that a contending team needs during a long 162 plus season
So close to a real solid team?? They made the playoffs two straight years and have a great shot at 3. I would say they are way more than close to a solid team.
Come on, really? When will it end…
Snider is probably worth at least a top 10 prospect. On the other hand, if you ask me to pick a guy from their prospect pool who just looks like a NH pick is Sickels’ #19 guy / Kiley McDaniel’s #12 guy, Pat Connaughton.
6’5″ and big fastball that has hit 97. All their other guys look like #4 /5 types, which wouldn’t really be worth it.
Notre Dame basketball player, so maybe there’s still more baseball skill in there than what he has shown so far.
Pat can’t be traded until June of this year.
I hope he is the PTBNL, I didn’t think they did that this far in advance though
Ah. Good point. Actually just heard his name on TV and I was surprised to see that he is actually still playing bball for note dame
that and his inability to be traded certainly put a damper on that idea haha
+++ jay ! A great athlete.
I wonder if a guy like Christian Walker is avaliable for trade? It seems like that is a bit high of a asking price but it all depends on how much Baltimore wants a lefty bat. It did say that they weren’t apart of the 40-man roster but maybe we can work around that and get a guy like Walker. I think snider could be a good starter and he already showed what he can do for us on the bench. If this trade does work out than we would probably need to find a new backup outfielder and maybe Tabata or Lambo can fit that role.
That would be a good value, It looks like Baltimore is planning on using Walker this year though, I’m not sure how Baltimore is going to use Snider though,
Their lineup is absolutely stacked with right handed hitters, they have been pursuing left handed hitters throught the off season but Rasmus signed with Houston and Aoki signed with the Giants. That leaves Baltimore without a left handed hitter, the only have 9 hitters that are able to bat left handed on their 40-man roster and none of them are starters except for Chris Davis who didn’t put up the numbers that everyone expected and Matt Wieters who had tommy john surgery this year. The rest look to be like minor leaguers and backups, the next possible left handed starter they have would be Alejandro De Aza.
Looks like Christian Walker would be a good pick up for the Pirates, he would probably go back to AAA for another year though and only be called up as injury replacement
“The Pirates need Snider’s depth in the majors more than they need an extra pitching prospect in the minors.”
Exactly. I love having Snider as an option off the bench – he makes this team that much more difficult to manage against/pitch around. A deal for Snider would have to yield more than non-prospect minor leaguers!
On one hand I agree.
On the other hand, Lambo is probably just about as good.
And even if he isn’t, and Polanco gets hurt, throw Jay Hay out there, and put Kang at 3b. Then Marte gets hurt? Jay Hay to left, Sean Rodriguez to Right. Someone else gets hurt? i dunno. I guess i’ll miss Snider then.
But just for a Lambo hope, steamer projections have him at .249/.303/.429, and 0.3 WAR over 145 PA.
Steamer has Snider at .253/.322/.412 with 0.4 WAR over 163 PA.
*Projections obviously aren’t gospel. Just interesting to see that Lambo and Snider look to be pretty similar players according to at least one system.
Lambo has NOT shown he is a ML player. Snider showed his upside last half season.
Looks like Huntington is showing faith that lambo deserves the shot snider received
or perhaps GMNH likes what Rojas Jr. & Hernandez have shown in minors+winter ball…?
I have to believe that Pgh’s FO has a Plan B for the 4th OF spot beyond Lambo (who has shown nothing at the ML level). Otherwise, this move/trade has me stumped… add more low-level pitching at the expense of the ML bench? Seems like a step backwards, unless GMNH has something up his sleeve with regards to the 4th OF spot… I guess time will tell…
Maybe he does believe in Lambo. snider was here 3 years and only produced for 3 months. Sell high. He seems, by Nh comments, we are getting 2 hard throwing lefties. Appears to be 2 top 15 prospects. Id say pretty good deal.
I guess I’m not a Lambo believer, and I don’t consider him to be much of a replacement at the ML level… I hope he proves me wrong someday. OTOH, I like what Snider has shown at the ML level, esp. the clutch RBIs he seems to generate in key games.
Fair enough. There’s certainly something to be said for being proven.
I understand your concerns. But Snider and Lambo are essentially duplicates at the plate and in the field (Snider has more bat control and maybe a better pinch hitter but what does Lambo have to prove in AAA?), except that Snider is more proven commodity and therefore has more trade value than Lambo. One of the two of them has to go in a year or so, so exploring trading the one of the two with the higher trade value makes sense. And the Pirates MilB system is light in LHSP.
This is a funny sentence: “They likely would be from the organization’s solid minor league pitching core.” Their #6 prospect is a C+ (according to Sickels): http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/12/1/7312039/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2015
Any guess who we get? Christian walker?
They’re mentioning the name Stephen Brault on the Internet, a young LHSP.
gw: I was thinking more along the lines of Stephen Tarpley or Brian Gonzalez, both young LHSP’s, with Gonzalez probably being my favorite. After that, maybe add a young LH hitting 3B?
Clearly a move to make salary/ 40 man room for James Shields
that would be nice,
Snider is a really nice 4th outfielder for us, but if the return is strong, I’m good with it. We have others who can fill in the OF when needed, like Harrison (Kang or Rodriguez at 3B), Hart, Tabata, Lambo, Decker, and maybe even Rojas, Broxton or Gorky, if in dire straits.
Good point. I like Snider but the Pirates have a variety of options that can step in if Polanco falters.
Dont like it…I understand the whole “OF is our biggest depth” but Snider was still better than Polanco last year….and UNTIL Polanco shows he doesn’t need to be handcuffed to a serviceable 4th OF for extended stretches I don’t think we should cast Snider away for anything other than being overwhelmed by a desperate team.
Giving Polanco the right field position without backup…..They either think Polanco will do better with the rest he had in the off season. Didn’t have any rest the year before or Lambo will make the team as 4th outfielder. Gamble??
I’m not really sure why people are being skeptical or overly cautious about Polanco for. The kid can hit, field and steal. I’m expecting at least a 4 WAR season. Obviously the Pirates have confidence in Polanco as well.
What you expect is completely meaningless. Did you only see Polanco for the first couple weeks he was up? I have complete faith in him in the long term, but you just lost your best option to replace him if he continues to struggle, not to mention Snider has the potential to really break out. I’m just hoping he doesn’t turn into another Bautista or somebody similar.
You’re right about two things, first my expectations about Polanco are meaningless as I’m just a fan and second, Snider was the best option after Polanco. Although, expectations of continued struggles and a .230 avg or worse from Polanco are also meaningless. Yes, I’m familiar with the entirety of what Polanco did last season. Are you familiar with what he did in the minors the last few years? Also, are you aware that Polanco had played baseball for 2 years straight with no offseason? Fatigue (mental or physical) could very well have been behind the struggles to adjust to MLB pitching.
As for Snider being the next Bautista, I don’t think Snider has the same power profile. Next Brandon Moss is more likely (a 2 to 3 WAR) starter and that is assuming Snider’s breakout was for real as he could be the next Andy LaRoche or Nate McLouth too. Also, Snider only has two years of team control left so even if he turns out to be for real he would have probably been traded in 2016 or leave as a FA in 2017.
I liked Snider too though and wish him the best in Baltimore. He has a better chance to start there.
I am higher than most on Rojas. Would not give Snyder away though.He is a quality baseball player
I guarantee you we will get quality in return, as has been proven time and again, over the past five years with this F/O. BTW, I like Rojas very much, as well.
Looks like we got a high upside guy.
NH said the ptbnl is similar to Tarpley.
I can live with this trade.