Pirates Discussion: Zach Thompson Takes on the Giants as Pirates Return to PNC Park

The Pittsburgh Pirates return to PNC Park tonight, taking on the San Francisco Giants at 7:05 PM EST.

The Pirates are riding a 1-9 stretch after a pretty rough road trip last week. Zach Thompson takes the mound tonight. After a rough April, Thompson has a 2.27 ERA in 35.2 innings since the start of May.

We will post lineups when they become available. Use the comments to discuss the game, and anything involving the big league club leading up to the game.

Canaan Smith-Njigba injured. Cam Vieaux to majors.

Here are the lineups:

Pirates

Giants

1. Luis Gonzalez (L) RF
2. Mike Yastrzemski (L) CF
3. Evan Longoria (R) 3B
4. Joc Pederson (L) LF
5. Brandon Belt (L) 1B
6. Thairo Estrada (R) 2B
7. Tommy La Stella (L) DH
8. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
9. Austin Wynns (R) C

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John Fluharty

How many in a row is this now?

roibert.kasperski

1 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Wilbur Miller

This offense produces excitement daily — the excitement of the daily no-hitter watch.

TNBucs

Hard to make Haines a scapegoat this year after making Eckstein a scapegoat last year.

Wilbur Miller

Oh, the problem goes up a lot higher. Here are the Pirates’ NL rankings, position by position, in OPS:

C: 15 (by a lot)
1B: 14
2B: 15 (by a lot)
3B: 7
SS: 15 (by a lot)
LF: 14
CF: 1
RF: 13
DH: 9

Just putrid across the board, except at two positions occupied by guys this FO inherited. And this is after being the NL’s worst-hitting team in 2020 (by far) and 2021. Every last thing this FO and manager do, every decision they make, that affects hitting in any way at all, immediately turns to absolute s**t. Nobody in this entire organization has the slightest, faintest clue what a major league hitter looks like.

Last edited 17 days ago by Wilbur Miller
1979andCounting

That’s the best graphic i’ve seen on this offensive futility. And DH is dropping another spot with each passing week, won’t be long til 13th- 15th.

TNBucs

The DH is most frustrating to me because if we can’t have a veteran there who is providing value (Vogelbach has negative WAR), then we should be using it to give prospects ABs.

bucsws2014

Bucs need another West coast trip.

PiratePrimate

I don’t understand. Two on, two out, a LH on the mound. Here was Shelton’s chance to PH Peguero and then put him RF!!!!!!!!

John Fluharty

Glad to see Veiaux got in right away.

Wilbur Miller

Did a great job. That’ll put him back in Indy tomorrow.

bucsws2014

Looking forward to Vieaux baffling the Giants with junk.

Last edited 17 days ago by bucsws2014
roibert.kasperski

He baffled Longoria pretty much 😂😂😂

bucsws2014

Fun fact: Since June 5, Pirates batting .199 as a team, with 29% of PAs resulting in a K.

TNBucs

This after firing Eckstein last year because we needed someone on the same page as Shelton.

PirateRican21

Your idea of fun is different than mine…..

PiratePrimate

$7 million and the Pirates could have had Pederson in RF and 35 HR’s.

Last edited 17 days ago by PiratePrimate
roibert.kasperski

Assuming would agree,to,signing that contract…..

PiratePrimate

That’s $1 million more than the Giants are paying him

roibert.kasperski

Still assuming he would choose the Bucs and some extra money over a playoff contender who are still paying him a bunch of money. Plus he is from Palo Alto, just ~30 miles south of San Francisco.

John Fluharty

May depend on how old he is too. Confusing a later part of his career he’s going to want to go to a contender.

PiratePrimate

Reality sucks

roibert.kasperski

Yes it does…….

PiratePrimate

Peguero pulls a Lou Gehrig tomorrow when they put him in the lineup and they never take him out again until they trade him for prospects five years from now.

Last edited 17 days ago by PiratePrimate
jon6er

Bringing Pequero up doesn’t mean Shelton will play him before Marcano’s back unless he pitches him, lol.

PirateRican21

Over-under 10k. For Rondon.

bucsws2014

A mere 8.

hoffmark83

Over

AdministrativeSky236

Mackey said peguero is a covid related callup

bucsws2014
TNBucs

This makes sense–you don’t want to call Cruz up until he has a chance to stay, so call up the next guy to give him a taste of MLB.

sherwjohn

I’m guessing that geography is the biggest factor.

AdministrativeSky236

Possibly for marcano? Peggy was just closest

roibert.kasperski

Yes Tucu on the COVID IL and he was closest is the official announcement

TNBucs

I just checked and Marcano has been replaced by Peguero on the active roster.

TNBucs

It’s arrogant or stupid or both that we’re batting Vogelbach with his .348 OPS against lefties fourth against Rodon. Yes, that .348 is based on a SSS this season, but for his career he has a .486 OPS against lefties.

Wilbur Miller

The stoopid is relentless.

TNBucs

And then Rodon walks him so Shelton can tell himself how smart he was.

PiratePrimate

Could sado-masochism be the driving force behind Shelton’s lineups?

roibert.kasperski

Just heard on the radio pregame that Peguero is at PNC!!!!!

AdministrativeSky236

Looks like beer temple tweeted a confirmation of this

roibert.kasperski

Yeah heard that right after I posted.

AdministrativeSky236

Still kinda confused as to why though, did he hop cruz?

bucsws2014

I heard a rumor that he’s being traded to Cleveland, and once that’s done, Cruz comes up.

TNBucs

This is exciting, though a pretty bold statement to leapfrog Peguero over Cruz.

sherwjohn

Maybe the message is “are you ready to learn the outfield now?”

TNBucs

I love Peguero but he’s had 100 assists and 12 errors in 388 innings at SS this season while Cruz has had 113 assists and 14 errors in 340 innings at SS this season. Obviously, assists and errors aren’t ideal for evaluating defense but they’re available and suggest that Peguero’s defense hasn’t been much, if any, better than Cruz’s. Cruz’s fielding percentage at Altoona (.931) is essentially identical to Peguero’s (.932).

Given that Cruz has been hitting better than Peguero in May and June (much better in June) and that Peguero has some of the same fielding concerns as does Cruz, calling Peguero up over Cruz seems odd. But so did calling Swaggerty up, playing him in only half the games he was up for, then sending him down to be replaced by CSN.

Anyway, I’m a big fan of Peguero but think the timing is better to bring Cruz up.

TNBucs

All moot–ignore this post (only leaving it up since it had a reply).

PiratePrimate

If all this is true then the Pirates have decided to use their future SS to light a fire under what they hope is their future power hitter. You live with errors from a future SS but it makes no sense to live with errors from a guy you know will not be a SS. Cruz needs to learns to play RF, recognize breaking pitches and get his head right for the show.

PiratePrimate

No shit!

PiratePrimate

Be still my heart!

sherwjohn

It is being reported that Peguero is at PNC tonight.

PiratePrimate

A class act comes to town tonight. The Giants represent the type of franchise that can’t compete financially w/ LA or NY but they stay competitive by spending ENOUGH money. They retain good players. They concentrate their money on SP and power. They play good defense and they don’t throw away games. They had a great manager in Bruce Bochy and they went out and got another good one after Bochy retired with a couple rings. If the Pirates want to model themselves after anyone, it’s the Giants. And I laugh so hard I almost inhale the bong water when someone argues with me that Nutting, et al, (The Pirates) can’t afford the $120 million a year price tag that comes with being competitive.
They also have the second nicest park in baseball behind PNC

Last edited 17 days ago by PiratePrimate
NMR

12:15Guy McDude: If minor league EV #s were more readily available over the past few decades would a guy like Victor Robles have had a harder time climbing prospect rankings?

12:16Eric A Longenhagen: Those metrics already existed for teams and it was a failure on the part of prospect writers not to have sourced that data and known there wouldn’t be as much power as we thought.

‘member that time Huntington was myopically focused on this guy when Juan Soto was in the very same system he was trying to trade with?

TNBucs

We don’t know that Huntington was focused only on Robles, but if he was, then wasn’t the bigger mistake made by the Nats who would have had even more data on Robles that suggested he wasn’t going to reach his projections?

I just googled Pirates trade rumors and found this tidbit from Rosenthal, which leaves open the possibility that Huntington had concerns about Robles:

“But the Pirates wanted more than just the Class A outfielder for McCutchen, and a number of other players would have been involved.”

NMR

If you find a club poorly valuing their top prospects, isn’t the right move to say aw shucks, I suppose we’ll have to accept your number 2…

Last edited 17 days ago by NMR
Wilbur Miller

Great. CSN to the 60-day IL with a fractured wrist.

AdministrativeSky236

Damn! When/how did that happen i wonder

Wilbur Miller

He got hit during the near-no-hitter, but I don’t remember whether it was on the wrist.

Danatural08

Call up Cruz!

1979andCounting

Pirates ex-pitchers success updates (very short version, full version would go one for multiple pages):

Holmes is one inning away from breaking Mariano Rivera’s Yankees record for most consecutive scoreless innings….he’s at 30 IP and counting.

Tyler Anderson has turned into more than a #4 -5 pitcher. 8-0 with a 2.82 era. Two nights ago he took a no-hitter 8.1 IP. He was massaging his forearm starting in the 5th inning, talking with pitching coach, and they kept running him out there. But the reality is that neither Seattle nor Pirates could play with the Dodgers offer of $8 mil to sign him.

RAS TN

Your last sentence says it all at least for the Pirates…BTW the Pirates can spend that amount they just won’t…

PirateRican21

PirateRican21

For the sake of discussion, since the Giants are in town. The Padres are in first place with the Dodgers .5 off and Giants 4.5 games behind, all three teams could used Reynolds. So here are 3 quick proposals;

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capirate

You must really want to get rid of Vogelbach!

PirateRican21

😄 as I went from team to team I meant to remove him, he Is a fillers, the main piece is what matters!

TNBucs

He’s been below replacement level, so in reality I think including him in a trade won’t improve the return. He really should be DFA’d so that we can give his ABs to a prospect.

AdministrativeSky236

I like the giants/dodgers deals more than the padres. My real ideal move would be pilfer the marlins young pitching

PirateRican21

The Marlins would be the best trading partner, the Mets are running away with it , but yeah pitching should be the priority. In a preseason version of these proposals I had Gore, but his value has quadrupled since and of course he will not be traded now.

SouthernBuc

Given those three options I like the Giants trade the best. I still hope they are a year away from deciding on whether Reynolds is part of the next winning team or they need to trade him to leverage his high value. Of course if an offer is beyond what you listed here (ie. can’t refuse), then you pull the trigger.

SouthernBuc

This is not an exciting reason, but for me it is valid. I actually look forward to the Brubaker/Keller/Thompson starts. Not because I am expecting an ace, but there does seem to be some hope that one (hopefully more) are turning into legitimate back of the rotation starters. That doesn’t win you a World Series, but rotation depth is critical and can help you get to the playoffs. Of course then you need the top of the rotation starters to carry you… but that is for another post or thread!!! Let’s go Bucs!

AdministrativeSky236

Just wanted to echo this as I have been thinking the same thing. All three of those guys have been good much more than not the last several weeks and we will need guys that can keep us in/win games every single day of the week not just when certain starters are in. Also, with all being young and controllable, we should be able to bring in a veteran starter to bridge for a year or two since most of our rotation is in arb/pre-arb still

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