Pirates Discussion: The Offense Has Come Alive

I’m not sure where the Pittsburgh Pirates get the audacity.

To beat the Cubs, two days in a row, in a way that the Cubs would normally beat the Pirates?

Quite frankly, it feels inappropriate in today’s Major League Baseball.

The Pirates have combined to thrash the Cubs 19-2 over the last two games, with newcomers Oneil Cruz and Bligh Madris pitching in during both games.

The two teams meet tonight for game three of the four game series at 7:05 PM EST. We will post the starter and lineups when they are available.

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jon6er

Cruz and Madris with 6 rbi’s apiece in three games. That’s unacceptable.

bucsws2014

Does Shelton dare pitch Eickhoff again on Monday or does he go back to Byrce Wilson… or call up Cody Bolton?

AdministrativeSky236

De Jong continuing a strong season and making a case to be a fixture in the pen at least

Wilbur Miller

Good thing they brought up Icough instead of starting De Jong. Otherwise, De Jong might have had to throw four innings.

The stoopid is suffocating.

PiratePrimate

I asked nicely to start DeJong and I got the finger

Wilbur Miller

Chang finally makes contact.

hoffmark83

Tomorrow’s headline will read Pirates add Eickhoff to little league roster because that’s where he belongs.

roibert.kasperski

Too bad it won’t mean much to the outcome but that was a nice play by Chang to save Cruz an error and completed the double play to end the 6th.

agent00

gee who could’ve guessed starting eickoff could’ve gone badly

Wilbur Miller

Well, anybody with his bubble gum card at least. He was good with the Phillies in 2016, but he’s been plagued by injuries ever since, and he’s been bad when he’s pitched. He wasn’t pitching well at Indy, but that wouldn’t bother GMBS. Classic eff the fans move from him.

agent00

it’s a mystery why they even signed him

Wilbur Miller

Yeah, he’s really been bad since 2016. Just another bad decision by GMBS. They knew they needed starting depth and this is what he came up with.

agent00

this shit will happen when they don’t care about winning games sadly. someday they’ll want to win games. i hope!

Wilbur Miller

The only time winning has gotten on their radar screen has been when they’ve had an especially long and excruciating losing streak and something idiotic has happened, like GMBS’s stupid “encouraging” comment. Then they get concerned that Nickels will notice and emerge from the bunker for a few minutes.

Last edited 12 days ago by Wilbur Miller
agent00

yep.

ahh that comment. that was truly one for the ages. cherington is a true spin master for that comment

ricramer

Well, at least he can clear a space on the 40 soon.

jon6er

Can’t wait to see the umps scorecard on this game. His strike zone is all over the place for the Pirate hitters, lol.

Born4rf

And that’s how chase de Jong says “why the F didn’t you start me“? I feel sorry for Eickhoff but it was a numb nuts decision to bring him up to start. He was the 14th most qualified person in the organization to start. The same could be said for gutting the lineup because heaven forbid you try for a four game winning streak. Not frustrated at all…

hoffmark83

Just when It was starting to get exciting watching the Pirates again, they call up a bumb to pitch and have a Sunday starting lineup. It’s as if this organization just doesn’t care about their fans or wants to win.

bucsws2014

Hey, it’s not every day you get to experience a guy putting on a major league uniform for the last time.

Wilbur Miller

Dumbo giving the fans the finger every couple minutes.

Wilbur Miller

Ben & Derry showing a genius for killing fan enthusiasm. And Dumbo makes it worse by leaving Icough in to intensify the embarrassment. They have an 8-man pen because . . . ????

TNBucs

It’s a lot easier to manage when fans’ expectations are low. They must have worried that expectations were starting to rise.

Iowasteel

Hard to believe they are so short of pitchers that they have to leave Eickoff in to take this kind of punishment.

roibert.kasperski

Shelton heard your plea…..

bucsws2014

Eickoff is at least semi-efficient. Only 71 pitches through 4. I mean Roansy and Bru threw more than that giving up 0-1 runs. They could learn something from Eickhoff 😱

AdministrativeSky236

This strike zone is wide

skliesen

Next stop for Tim is ESPN Sunday night Baseball Tonight to talk about Cruz.

phieralph

Tim! Greg Brown just shouted you out personally! Saying you do a great job at Pirates Prospects! Ayyoooo

^3rd w/ 1 out AB

bucsws2014

Did he mention that Tim thinks Cruz should get traded? 😀

John Fluharty

Greg Brown just mentioned Tim on the broadcast. 😀. Said he “does a good job with the Pirates prospects” at Baseball America.

Last edited 12 days ago by John Fluharty
AdministrativeSky236

Hes famous!

roibert.kasperski

Famous or Infamous??

bucsws2014

If Burrows had stuck with UConn, they’d have been in Omaha last year.

PiratePrimate

Chang has that good warning track power that will buy him a ticket home.

Last edited 12 days ago by PiratePrimate
AdministrativeSky236

Diego!

John Fluharty

Six more to go!

Last edited 12 days ago by John Fluharty
roibert.kasperski

Only need 13 in the bottom of the ninth!!

roibert.kasperski

Make that 9…….

skliesen

Is this the game we see Cruz pitch?

bucsws2014

Eickhoff is a jagoff.

PiratePrimate

No, Nickles is the jagoff. No respectable owner who wants his team to win would put the organization in the position of having to constantly scrape the bottom of the barrel.

bucsws2014

This is not the year to win.

PiratePrimate

I’m not talking about winning. I’m talking about being responsible enough to make sure there’s enough money in salaries to put a respectable product on the field. He’s a negligent owner who fills his own pockets at the expense of running a respectable organization. He’s a jagoff,

bucsws2014

Well you said “wants to win”. No reason he’d want to this year. Next year, sure.

AdministrativeSky236

Need probably ~8+ viable starters going into next year if we want a shot at improving, think we got 4 on the roster plus Burrows by mid season and maybe bolton, so a vet or two and we should be a decent shape i would think

bucsws2014

I’ve been predicting that Nutting is gonna splurge on Musgrove!

AdministrativeSky236

That would be a dream! Definitely think he will be priced well well above our spending desire/abilities

bucsws2014

I have a theory that Bob wants the window to start in earnest next year while nobody of value is close to pre-arb. Thus, he may well splurge on a front-loaded multi-year contract where he can easily afford the first three years and still be well under $100M, allowing him to add one or two other decent pieces to the kids making nothing.

AdministrativeSky236

I would love this but Ill believe it when I see it

roberto

My sense is that Nutting’s finances have gotten much better and less risky. He already authorized the Hayes extension. More to come?

AdministrativeSky236

I dont think this guy is gonna stick around

Wilbur Miller

Probably not beyond next year, no.

skliesen

Eickhoff is making me long for Bryce Wilson.

John Fluharty

Eeeek-off. Need to just release this guy after the game.

phieralph

Yikes. 2 pitches. 2 HB’s. 1 run.

This guy has been in AAA? I have not heard of him.

AdministrativeSky236

Journeyman that should continue his journey

Ardotcom2

Another ump forcing Robo umps into the game

b mcferren

I was afraid he got hurt until he rounded second

AdministrativeSky236

I was thinking the same

1979andCounting

Hey, we actually have a nice bench tonite. Hoping Shelty optimizes some key PH situations. Or another blow-out would be fine to limit his strategery.

TNBucs

I’d prefer Suwinski at DH on a rest day, but glad to see Mitchell back in the lineup (Castillo too).

phieralph

And tonight, judging by the lineup, the offense has been euthanized.

roibert.kasperski

Glad the weather is clearing. Really wanna see this game tonight.
I thought I saw Toto go by my office window about an hour ago….

Wilbur Miller

Injury updates:

Gamel to Indy to start tomorrow.
Peters to throw live BP this weekend, so I assume he won’t be out long.
Pirates optimistic Thompson will miss the minimum 15 days.
Mears had forearm tightness after pitching yesterday, being reevaluated. Crappity.
Nick G has a “plantar fascia issue,” walking boot for 2-4 weeks. Apparently not a Dr. Joe diagnosis. Sounds like he may miss the rest of the MiL season except the last few weeks.

Last edited 12 days ago by Wilbur Miller
PirateRican21

Now the Freddy Sanchez comp makes sense.

roibert.kasperski

“Apparently not a Dr. Joe diagnosis”

Thanks for getting that incident back into my head again……………

EightMenOut

Line up is more about tomorrow, than tonight. Day game tomorrow. OK to give Suwinski and Hayes a rest. Neither pitcher has big R/L splits. Chang or Chavis have to play first with Cruz throwing 90+ in the dirt to first base, neither hit well against right-handers, but would rather have Chavis tomorrow against the lefty. Also would rather have Hayes against the lefty tomorrow than Park, so rest Hayes tonight, and play Castillo tomorrow at second.

docdon385

Over thinking it just like that fellow who tries to act like a manager. Baseball players are supposed to play every day with the occasional day off and not all at the same time. No Suwinski, Hayes or Chavis on the same day because there’s another game tomorrow? Seriously? Rest one tonight and one tomorrow maybe but not playing all three in the same game is not the way to do it.

EightMenOut

Chavis is hitting .211 against right-handers this year, OPS of .591. Hayes is batting .235 with an OPS of .647 against right-handers. I don’t have the stats on rested players versus players that rarely rest.

skliesen

Dude, they aren’t benching Stargell, Parker, and Oliver. Not a fan of Chang, but I don’t have an issue with rest of lineup. Moving Cruz to lead off and Captain to 3rd is worth whatever they lose benching Hayes and Jack.

PiratePrimate

Perez, Chang and Park hitting in front of Cruz. It’s like Shelton wants to limit the RBI opportunities. Yo no entiendo. Maybe I’m just not smart enough to understand.

EightMenOut

I love Cruz batting first, you don’t want to walk the lead-off hitter in the first inning, especially one that is a threat to steal second. It means Cruz should see strikes if he can lay off the balls, and Cruz can crush strikes.

jon6er

I saw that lineup and no Suwinski and immediately felt bad for Eickhoff. The guy is going to be nervous as it is and Shelton handcuffs the offense again. But what can you expect, Shelton thinks he’s the reason they won the last 3 games and the offense has exploded.

roibert.kasperski

If he is that nervous at age 32 (as of the 2nd) and having started 80 games in the league so far, he would put himself in trouble. I do feel bad that he is missing a couple of bats but the bats that are there should be able to score him some runs.

skliesen

I guarantee you he couldn’t care less who is batting for Pirates, but he definitely should care Hayes’ glove isn’t on the field.

roibert.kasperski

Very good point.

jon6er

Holy cow, lol. Need to do my homework since I thought he was a young rookie. I realize now I use to see him pitch for Philly, lol.

John Fluharty

The memory is the first thing to go!

jon6er

I’m sorry, I forgot what you wrote😁

roibert.kasperski

LOL! The fog has cleared

jon6er

LOL

Wilbur Miller

So Shelton decided to wait a day before screwing up a good thing. A good RHP and no Suwinski, no Hayes, but we got Chang. What possible reason could there be for playing him, other than veteran tenure?

EightMenOut

You can’t play Chavis at first every game, and who else are you going to play at first, with Cruz throwing 90+ in the dirt, on this roster?

Last edited 12 days ago by EightMenOut
Wilbur Miller

Madris

EightMenOut

FG says he has 3 games and 2 errors in AAA this year at first base.

Wilbur Miller

He played a lot there in college.

And this is pretty funny anyway. This is a team that made Yoshi its starting 1B and that routinely plays infielders in the outfield even though they’ve never played there before. Now, when it’s a matter of getting a .120 hitter on the field, suddenly experience at a position is everything. Yeah, sure.

Oh, and yes, you can play Chavis at first every game.

EightMenOut

Madris was in college, like 5 years ago? You are not going to put him in that position in his third major league game. Tsutsugo played 19 games for the Dodgers at first base, not like the Dodgers are a joke. Not saying Tsutsugo should be playing there for these Pirates. Chang is not playing well and will likely be put on waivers when Gamel comes off the injured list, maybe before that. Gamel gives the Pirates a decent left handed bat that can also play first, assuming they don’t want to bring up Martin. I’m actually glad that Cruz at short will put a stop to the Pirates trying just anybody at first. My only point is, you can’t really fault Shelton for seeing Chang as his second option for a first baseman, given the roster he has. With a day game tomorrow and with Chavis not hitting right-handers very well, then Chang at first is understandable, if not desirable.

jon6er

Bligh has had more experience at first base in his baseball life than VanMeter and Shelton had no problem putting him there.

EightMenOut

VanMeter played a lot of 2nd, 3rd, and outfield in the minors, same in the majors. He also played 19 games at first base for the Reds, making 1 error. I think I would have confidence in his glove at first base. Madris played 34 games at first base for Mesa State (NCAA) in 2015-2017. Then in the minors Madris played a total of 3 games at first base. I would not be confident in his glove at first base, just going off those stats.

PiratePrimate

Messing with a streak? Bad karma

Danatural08

Know he’s been gone for a while, but I think NH should be getting some recognition for at least recognizing some talent, as this current team’s best offensive talents are his acquisitions: Reynolds & Oneil, plus Bligh looks pretty good. I’m also a fan of Brubaker. NH’s decisions still rippling thru this team

EightMenOut

History seems to be showing he had an eye for talent, and I think he put in place some decent structure for finding talent and holding scouts accountable (can’t remember when I read that article). But, I think the knock against all of that was the development of that talent was not very good.

John Fluharty

So maybe he should be head of scouting somewhere.

agent00
roibert.kasperski

If true, I done did call that yesterday when were guessing what they would do. Glad they kept Vieux up if so.

agent00

it’s the right move. he’s just not a good pitcher

roibert.kasperski

Yep. Could have been Fletcher too because they just picked up Stout to be the new emergency lefty but this accomplishes the both the active and the 40 man. Stout and/or Fletcher are soon to be next depending on how many spots are needed.

PiratePrimate

Tonight probably won’t be no disco like the last couple, three games where the Pirates have had either the beginnings of a good run or they’ve been blessed with greatness and immortality. Thompson can pitch, unlike the last two mere mortals who were unworthy of facing gods. We’re going to find out tonight if a good pitcher can stop a team blessed by fortune. Because that’s what we’ve witnessed the last couple nights. A lineup sprinkled with a few solid players has become a lineup blessed by the baseball gods. Cruz steps into the lineup and I believe even players like Vogelbach and Perez become transformed. Bligh Madris has already started praying daily that he gets to hit behind Cruz for say, the next 5,000 AB’s.
I know this is baseball and it can all turn around from day to day to inning to inning and even pitch to pitch. Injuries can overwhelm you. Your pitching can suck or these young guys can’t compete against TOR pitchers. But, gentlemen, I don’t think I’m being deceived by what I’ve witnessed the last couple nights. This guy is blessed by the gods and guys like that can make everyone around him better. Just ask all those old guys what happened when Joe Morgan showed up in Cincinnati.

roibert.kasperski

Me a the thought of Michael Perez being transformed………………

PiratePrimate

Tell that Hal Smith

Mblee24

I’m thinking of some of the moves that need to happen with guys coming of IL. I’m thinking Gamel for Mitchell, VanMeter for Park, Newman for Castillo, Yoshi for Chang. I think Marisnick is DFA’d. I’m hoping Yoshi only gets a week or 2 then is DFA’d. I think Gamel and Newman need to play then be traded at deadline. VanMeter not sure what to do with him because I can’t see them DFA’ing him and I doubt by they can trade him.

I am hoping Swaggerty comes up for good at some point in the 2nd half as well.

roibert.kasperski

If VanMeter had not gotten hurt and continued on his streak of hitting .333 with a little pop he might have looked useful to another team and they might have been able to move him. Prolly not so much now.

Mblee24

Yeah I agree. I’m curious to see what they do with him. I’d hate him to block let’s say a Marcano or Castillo.

jon6er

Or a Bae…

roibert.kasperski

Still waiting for the other Eickhoff shoe to drop………………

agent00

goodbye hembree

roibert.kasperski

Hardy knew ye…….

Wilbur Miller

Supposedly Gamel starts rehab tomorrow.

skliesen

If nothing else, he provides a taller option to play 1B.

Wilbur Miller

I’m hoping he plays first during his rehab. He, Chavis and Bligh can cover first. Yoshi and Chang 👋

AdministrativeSky236

Would think maybe he will get a few weeks in the major as he earned it and showing that he is healthy will allow us to get something in a trade

Wilbur Miller

Unlike most of the other veterans, he should actually have trade value.

skliesen

Not as much as Quintana.

roibert.kasperski

As long as Quintana does not regress. He is still good but not quite as good as he was a month ago. Hope they can trade while still good.

Wilbur Miller

I’m hoping Q is just seeing some normal regression. If he can more or less keep his performance similar to the year to date, I’d rather keep him and try to re-up him.

PiratePrimate

But that would make so much sense and costs money.

jimmyz

I’ve always like Quintana and he’s having a pretty solid if unspectacular season so far but I hope that Cherington aims a bit higher for the annual free agent starter to round out the rotation this winter than where Quintana is at in his career. There’s a lot of mileage on that arm.

Wilbur Miller

It’d be great if they’d go out and get a serious starter, but I don’t see that and Q as mutually exclusive.

Of course, with Nickels, either one is probably hoping for too much.

jimmyz

That’s a fair assessment. I’m still holding out hope that the team pulls their version of the Cubs’ signing of Jon Lester a year before they’re really expecting to contend. Don’t worry about my emotions or mindset though because my years of fandom for this franchise has properly prepared me for my inevitable disappointment.

jon6er

It is my general belief that these guys will all pitch better with some run support. It has to be tough to go out there with the mindset that you can’t afford to make a mistake and then a guy doesn’t make a play behind you or you walk a guy and the pressure goes up. There’s only a small percentage of major league pitchers that are able to handle that game after game or not everyone can be 1972 Steve Carlton, lol.

roibert.kasperski

Actually, was just thinking the grind with Quintana and the league having seen how he has been attacking hitters as the season goes. To be honest was not even thinking about him trying to be too fine because of run support or the lack thereof.

jon6er

Maybe that’s why he was seen celebrating in the dugout two nights ago when the Buc’s scored 12. He was thinking ‘give me some of that love’, lol.

roibert.kasperski

LOL!

agent00

i’ve reached the rare point in time where i’m more excited to watch the pirates offense than the pitching

skliesen

In two games with Cruz and Captain Bligh on the roster, as they should’ve been on Opening Day, the Pirates runs/game has increased from approximately 3.4 to 3.6.

Can’t help but wonder what could’ve been. But all we can do now is truly believe there are brighter days ahead. Much brighter!

zebug

You’re not using sample size the appropriate internet message board way. You should have said:
Pirates runs/game without Cruz/Madris = 3.4
Pirates runs/game with Cruz/Madris = 9.5

skliesen

My bad. If Pirates had broke camp w Cruz & Captain Bligh, MLB talking heads would be debating who has the better offense, 2022 Pirates or 1927 Yankees.

redwards60

Talent does that…improves all aspects of the team.

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