Pirates Game Discussion: Pirates vs Cardinals, 11:35 AM

The Pittsburgh Pirates (16-23) take on the St Louis Cardinals (22-18) on Sunday morning for game three of their three-game tilt at PNC Park. The game starts at 11:35 AM and they are on the Peacock. The early start time is so the channel has an exclusive time window when no other games are on. Bryse Wilson (0-2, 5.67) is starting for the Pirates, while the Cardinals are countering with veteran lefty Steven Matz (3-3, 6.03), who will be making his ninth start of the season.

Here are the lineups:

Pirates

Cardinals

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agent00

looks like the pirates are calling up contreras. yayyy

agent00

these callups are great and all…but where are the offensive callups??

Wilbur Miller

Got four runs off Yadi. We’re good for another month.

agent00

absolutely bought tsutsugo another month with that bomb lmao

agent00

de los santos as well. lmao. maybe the pirates are finally feeling some pressure to win

Wilbur Miller

Hopefully they’ll option Wilson and release Bombree, but that seems way too logical for the Pirates.

Wilbur Miller

I guess the “deployment “ wasn’t so good after all.

jon6er

Sadly they are being delivered into the clutches of Shelton and Marin!

jon6er

Maybe they were forced to listen to their own very disingenuous bs.

MWT

Criticisms regarding spending are always valid, but St. Louis has two premier “big name” players. One of which (Goldschmidt) did not play at all today and the other (Arenado) left the game after 2 at bats.

St.Louis scored 18 runs with players you’ve hardly ever heard of and a washed up Albert Pujols on his farewell tour.

Their starting pitcher left the game after throwing 4 pitches.

They draft and develop better. They’ve built their roster better. They coach better.

PiratePrimate

The St. Louis Cardinals have a $138 million dollar payroll. Who are you kidding here?

ArkyWags

Yeah man it’s all the money. That’s the reason they’re successful and the Pirates aren’t. Makes wanking motion…

PiratePrimate

$100+ million dollar payrolls over the last 10 years compared to the Pirates way of doing business and the results are beyond measurable but they’re certainly evident.

MWT

What if I told you if you exclude Arenado DHing for an inning, the Pirates fielded the more expensive lineup today? And still lost by 14 runs?

mikeschalke

Amen brother couldn’t have said it better!!

Wilbur Miller

More stoopid:

“I agree our deployment’s been all right, but the big thing is execution,” Shelton said.

IOW, they’ve put the right players on the field, but the players effed up. Idontcareington said something similar. If you parse through the deliberately opaque word games, what they’re saying is they believe they’ve done a fine job. Here in the real world, Shelton so far is the worst manager they’ve had since Lamont and BSC is giving Dave Littlefield a serious run for worst GM in the television era.

agent00

say what you want about mackey but i thought his latest article was pretty good. some baffling comments from cherington here. they legitimately do not care about winning games at the mlb level right now

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2022/05/22/pirates-ben-cherington-progress-cardinals-blowout-loss-pnc-park-absurd-struggles/stories/202205220053

Last edited 1 month ago by agent00
Wilbur Miller

Funny, Stumpf’s piece made the same point.

agent00

it’s quite often when beer temple’s pieces and stumpf..or mackey’s pieces have similar content the same time they come out with an article. makes me wonder why i subscribe to more than one site  😂 

Wilbur Miller

It’s gotten into the realm of the surreal. Idontcareington is “encouraged?” There aren’t words to describe what a cynical, heedless comment that is. With all the losing of the last three decades, they’re playing the worst baseball of any Pirate team in memory. They’re in their third season now, and there isn’t a single thing this FO and staff have done well, or even semi-competently. These guys wouldn’t know major league players from Alvin and the Chipmunks.

NMR

Excuse me sir, this is the “build”. You just don’t get it.

Wilbur Miller

It’s like a building project starting with dynamiting the old building, except the dynamiting was so fun they’re doing it over and over.

agent00

like mackey says later in the article…i see what he’s trying to say. but to be honest, that’s something that should stay in the org. the public doesn’t want to hear that shit right now. the team is an embarrassment. the fans don’t need to hear any empty platitudes about how despite the lack of winning, the processes they want to see are going well!! no one really cares. fans want to see results.

this really just stems from a lack of urgency to win at the mlb level. it’s a shame to see

TNBucs

Cherington pointing out that we need more talent–whose job is that? Shelton saying the players just need to execute–i.e., he’s blameless, the players just need to do better. A real lack of leadership and accountability by each.

Maybe there’s a reason the Red Sox got rid of Cherington so soon after he won a WS and why multiple teams passed on Shelton despite his reputation of being a “manager in waiting”.

agent00

certainly seems like cherington’s WS win was a flash in the pan. he was average outside of that. i based my hope in the hire on the premise that cherington was with toronto for a few years. maybe he learned from his mistakes and learned from his time in toronto.

that seems to have not happened, unfortunately.

Wilbur Miller

That WS happened because BC brought in a bunch of second- and third-tier veterans who played at the extreme upper end of their abilities: Mike Napoli, Stephen Drew, Jonny Gomes, Shane Victorino, Daniel Nava, Mike Carp, Craig Breslow. All of them tanked the next year and Boston finished last. It was a fluke.

agent00

yeahhhh. pretty much.

TNBucs

I didn’t think this year’s team could be worse than the 2020-2021 Pirates but that seems to be the case. Cherington can’t evaluate talent and Shelton can’t get anything close to the best out of what talent he has on the roster.

If we had an owner who cared, I’d feel certain we’d hit a quick reset after this season before the current management team’s practices got any deeper ingrained in the system.

redwards60

Another day and another Pirates embarrassment. Let me help the Pirates woefully inept management team out….(1)Keller and Wilson do not belong in any major league rotation. Contreras and Bolton cannot be any worse. Give them a shot. (2) Swap catchers with Indy…easy upgrade. (3) I know you feel the need to justify the moronic trade, but DFA VanMeter today…replace with Bae. DFA Yoshi and replace with Martin or Mitchell. (4) waive Hebree and replace with de Los Santos. You are welcome

ricramer

Totally agree with #’s 3 & 4.

RAS TN

Since it’s still spring cleaning house is still appropriate…well I guess it’s now between KC and Pgh for the 2023 top pick, like that really matters…

AAAA team, AAAA FO, AAAA Dugout, and A owner…

TNBucs

There’s a lottery now. Given that, I wonder if Cherington’s and Shelton’s supporters still think we’re only this bad because those two are intentionally tanking.

Stephen B

What a shit show. It bears repeating, a competent organization can work toward a rebuild in the minor leagues and still make its major league squad watchable – there’s no law against it or anything. All it takes is money – and not a huge amount, relative to the other small market/low revenue teams. Money that certainly is being pocketed and won’t be made available in the form of a fantasy rainy day fund that has been written about here as an article of faith. $15M would have brought in reinforcements in the outfield, at catcher, in the pen, in the rotation – guys a cut above the waiver wire and paid accordingly so that you can avoid losing by ten runs every week and a half.

Yeah, it’s going to get better (though certainly there’s no urgency as yet). But there’s no damn reason it had to be THIS bad in the first place.

docdon385

I haven’t heard much of anyone talk about how having to play with this bunch of castoffs and never beens has to be impacting the play of the few good players on the team. Reynolds, Hayes and, well maybe that’s about it (Chavis maybe), have to be negatively effected by the gross incompetence surrounding them.

Don’t know if any of you have ever played on a bad team, but it can be demoralizing and take its toll on effort and confidence that’s hard to recover from. Frankly as much as I would like to see it, I’m not sure it would be a good idea to bring the high level prospects up to this team without cleaning house and basically starting from scratch. There’s just too much poor play, negativity and lack of effort currently that could become contagious to the youngsters.

PiratePrimate

You seem to think someone in this organization gives a shit

MWT

I get no one expected this team to be good this year, but consistently getting blown out by 10+ runs, leading the league in errors, getting shut out regularly… someone has to get fired at some point.

TNBucs

The way this team is losing, especially the blowouts, is a reflection on Shelton and his staff.

1979andCounting

You’re kidding me……Derek wanted the kids to have some fun in the 9th…..VanMeter pitching……..ridiculous.

TNBucs

Shelton talks the talk about respecting the game but doesn’t walk the walk.

Wilbur Miller

Looks like VanMeter’s a better pitcher than hitter.

PiratePrimate

You could describe him as a very bad, good hitting pitcher.

PiratePrimate

How many more AB’s does Tsutsugo get?

1979andCounting

Hundreds more……back in the Nippon.

bucsws2014

In 10 games since May 12 (start of Reds series)…
BA: .173
OPB: .242
OPS: .507
WRC+: 50
RS: 16
RA: 53

agent00

to andy haines:

PiratePrimate

Uh, are you telling me the Pirates can’t hit or pitch?

1979andCounting

Pujois WAR back to 100.0

agent00

ahh a pujols home run at pnc park. just like old times

Wilbur Miller

He needs to schedule his final retirement at the end of a Pirate series.

PiratePrimate

Was hoping Pirate pitching would do its part to keep him above 100.0

agent00

going to go out on a limb and say the pirates are bad, folks

Wilbur Miller

This one will make them 3-10 in blowouts, as defined by bb-ref.

I can’t help wondering whether anybody associated with this farcical franchise cares that they not only keep losing, but they lose routinely in embarrassing fashion.

1979andCounting

It’s particularly embarrassing on a weekend/ Sunday afternoon when there’s a chance to draw 20K with a lot of families and kids and to have an exciting fan experience…..these include the next generation of someone’s fans. That will likely not become at least even nominal Pirate fans. A lot of once a year attenders at best, and then they will go back to their regular lives of following another Pittsburgh sports team.

agent00

yep for sure. i feel bad for the young fans. they get to watch this trainwreck year in and year out.

1979andCounting

And now just heard Brownie doing a commercial between innings for the $169 Bucs Flex Plan! LOL, what bad timing!

1979andCounting

And two more ads…..the Family Pack for $38 followed by the Giant Eagle Advantage card deal! Is Nutting really spending radio ad dollars……laughable.

agent00

i was literally just talking to my friend about this. does anyone there have pride in what they put out on the field? i get it’s a rebuild and whatever. but that doesn’t matter. you shouldn’t routinely lose this bad to teams. it’s pathetic to watch, as a fan. as a part of management/coaching i’d be severely embarrassed.

Wilbur Miller

Obviously, the bottom line is that there’s zero accountability. Bobbo has made it clear that the Nutlings can party away, as long as they don’t spend his money on the booze.

agent00

who actually cares to win baseball games

PiratePrimate

Nickles will run this scam until someone makes him stop.

Wilbur Miller

Bryce Wilson — Another fine pickup by Ben Idontcareington.

John Fluharty

I have no problem with them picking him up, but it’s past time to admit that it’s not working out and move on.

MWT

He should be in AAA, but unfortunately starting pitching depth wasn’t addressed in the off-season so he is sent out to get shelled every 5 days instead.

Bucs'N'Pucks (Jeff Reed)

Tyler “I can’t strike anyone out” Beede showing to be another strong waiver acquisition

Wilbur Miller

BIDC never misses!

MWT

The way this organization utilizes it’s young players pretty much kills any excitement I have about them eventually calling up prospects.

PiratePrimate

It’s pretty cool, too. In Altoona, outfielders play outfield and infielders play infield.

PirateRican21

Read the Chad Kull interview yesterday, what a mature gentleman like approach on his view on hisPirates departure. But I wish he call BC right now and just say, you chose Wilson over me, how you like them apples!!!!!!!

TNBucs

I was also impressed with Kuhl but sadly his comments about Cherington (and Shelton by extension since surely Cherington’s view that Kuhl couldn’t start was based on input from Shelton) just reinforced that we’re no better off in our ability to evaluate and develop pitching than we were three years ago.

PiratePrimate

That Altoona lineup is certainly more interesting than the Pirates lineup. Kyle Nicolas might already be better than Wilson.

1979andCounting

Three hours wasted? It took one hour to play 1.5 innings….terrible pace due mostly to our pitching.

1979andCounting

This is the time for a mop up job……Tyler Beede?

skliesen

Just remember this Pirates fans, we are one day closer to the Pirates promoting Cruz, Contreras, Mitchell, et al. And every loss makes it more likely those glorious days of promise will come quicker.

docdon385

Whew. Where do you get your ‘shrooms?

Wilbur Miller

Lessee . . . . Infinite minus one = ?????

skliesen

You’re nothing if not consistent in your attitude towards this organization Wilbur.

PiratePrimate

Another Snarky Puppy fan. I like that band.

Wilbur Miller

It’s just so much fun following a team when the owner and FO don’t care how embarrassing they look and make no effort to get better.

1979andCounting

Gorman up for Cards, Rutschman for O’s…….when will our day come!

skliesen

Soon. Very soon.

These bad losses will make the winning all the more sweeter.

1979andCounting

IFer playing OF biting us again on two poor throws in a row.

skliesen

Matz exits after 4 pitches. That’s what this practical Pirates fan deserves for adding him to my fantasy team today.

MWT

Peacock’s broadcast is already noticeably better than Apple’s the other night. They have one commentary guy from each local market in the booth with a play-by-play guy calling the game. Bob Walk is representing the Bucs, Jim Edmonds is representing the Cards. I appreciate the in depth conversation by baseball minds, a far cry from Apple the other night which seemed to focus more on meaningless banter to fill the air.

Last edited 1 month ago by MWT
PiratePrimate

Baseball so bad you have to pay for it? What an incredible marketing concept. The Dadaists would love it.

PiratePrimate

Early morning baseball on the radio. Love it.

1979andCounting

And we’ve got Brownie and Wehner today……all’s good. Block and Kevin Young would be not favorable.

jon6er

I’m keeping an eye on gameday until the Altoona game starts at 1.

docdon385

This is one game I plan to miss. I refuse to pay another streaming service to watch a game I have already paid a satellite provider to watch so the owners of the 30 MLB teams can profit more by reselling an inferior product they’ve already sold to chumps like me who still love the game instead of the money it makes for them. This team would need to be a whole lot more competitive to consider doing that.

It’s fine to stream it so the kiddies with a five minute attention span can get it on their cell phones, but taking it off the broadcast service to do so is unacceptable to me at least. Wave of the future? Maybe so, but not today.

1979andCounting

Peacock knows they’re not getting any Pirate fan buys. They want the St. Louis market, and they will definitely get it. Like you, I’m not happy about.

docdon385

I’m not blaming NBC or Peacock. They have a right to run their business. I blame MLB (the owners) who sold exclusive rights to them and other streaming services after previously selling the same thing (or so I thought) to people like us who pay cable or satellite providers so we can watch, then taking it away for more profit. That’s not doing business; that’s graft.

I also seriously doubt Cardinal fans are pleased about it either, although they’re probably more likely to watch because they actually have something worth watching.

jon6er

That is or “was” the reason I didn’t cut my comcast package is because I get almost the complete schedule of Pirate games on AT&T Sportsnet. Now I lost two games to AppleTv and Peacock. I was just hanging on to see if they bring up some prospects later on in the year I could watch. It’s not worth it anymore since as a fan who was around for the 1960, 71 and 79 WS victories I’m pretty much beating a dead “nostalgia” horse these past few decades.

jon6er

Wow, for 4.99 I can watch VanMeter play, lol.

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