On Saturday afternoon, Jon Heyman tweeted out some new information regarding the possible trade between the Pittsburgh Pirates and New York Yankees, which would involve Gerrit Cole as the centerpiece. He said that the Pirates asked for infielder Gleyber Torres in the deal, but he doesn’t believe that the Yankees would give him up.
Pirates have wanted Gleyber Torres in a Gerrit Cole deal. Can’t see yanks giving GT up. Frazier a more likely centerpiece, but would need to be more than 1 for 1. Perhaps andujar or Adams could be 2nd piece. Still negotiating.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 16, 2017
Torres is considered the top prospect for the Yankees and the second best prospect in baseball, trailing only Shohei Ohtani. Torres was likely going to make the majors at some point in 2017, but Tommy John surgery shut him down in mid-June. TJ surgery for position players has a shorter recovery time than pitchers, so he should be ready to go once the season starts. He has mainly been a shortstop during his career, who has an above average arm, with quick hands and excellent footwork. The Yankees had him start taking turns at second base in the AFL last year, then tried him occasionally at third base once the 2017 season started. The majority of his playing time was still at shortstop.
At the plate, the 21-year-old Torres, who just had his birthday on Wednesday, has an advanced approach at the plate. He’s got extremely quick hands, advanced plate patience and strong pitch recognition skills. Torres makes solid contact, with the ability to be an above average power hitter in the future. He put up an .863 OPS in 23 games at Triple-A before his injury.
If anything new comes up today, we will update this article.
John started working at Pirates Prospects in 2009, but his connection to the Pittsburgh Pirates started exactly 100 years earlier when Dots Miller debuted for the 1909 World Series champions. John was born in Kearny, NJ, two blocks from the house where Dots Miller grew up. From that hometown hero connection came a love of Pirates history, as well as the sport of baseball.
When he didn't make it as a lefty pitcher with an 80+ MPH fastball and a slider that needed work, John turned to covering the game, eventually focusing in on the prospects side, where his interest was pushed by the big league team being below .500 for so long. John has covered the minors in some form since the 2002 season, and leads the draft and international coverage on Pirates Prospects. He writes daily on Pittsburgh Baseball History, when he's not covering the entire system daily throughout the entire year on Pirates Prospects.
Off topic….although i don’t necessarily disagree with him, I am very surprised that NH publicly stated that he does not feel the Pirates can make the playoffs in 2018 – of for any GM to make such a statement months from start of a season. Doesn’t do much to generate fan confidence or excitement, nor can it be a great message to send to your team.
Thoughts or opinions?
when did he do that?
Last week:
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/13073169-74/pirates-gm-neal-huntington-torn-on-teams-direction-says-2018-playoffs-might
torres shefield and andujar and 2 class ptbnl lottery tickets for cole- harrison and some cash to yanks to keep them under 197 million. take or leave it or move on neil.
Has Harrison been mentioned in any rumors? Even if he has, I don’t see any chance of getting Torres. As for them signing CC, Yankees have little depth after SP 1-5, so I dont think that affects their interest in Cole.
than move on, harrison fits well in the yanks line-up and should hit better in a stacked line-up. also all rumors have come out on ny city. CC gave it all last year so he may be done and when will tanaka’s elbow snap.ps the have until the trade dead line to move cole.
I think Cole for 2 of Frazier, Andujar, Adams and Sheffield is fair, Pirates getting their choice of Frazier and Andujar. I like Andujar, but defer to others. -yankees-thirdbase-prospect-miguel-andujar
10_things_to_know_about_yankees_miguel_andujar_who.html
I disagree – I’d walk away and move him at trade deadline, when pitching gets very expensive and its a sellers market….I’d want Torres or 3 of the names you listed above
This trade negotiating through the media has got me thinking. Is all WAR created equal?
Torres is a great prospect, but if he turns into a 4 WAR player, it is possible that half of that will come from his defense.
Frazier, on the other hand, if he turns into a 4 WAR player, it is possible that all if not more will come from his bat.
I am of the opinion that WAR is not equal. I tend to value oWAR over total WAR. Therefore, I tend to value Frazier equally to the way I value Torres in a trade scenario.
If Cashman got Stanton for a few box tops and bubble gum then what do you think the Pirates will get for Cole? My guess is he will get coal in his stocking for him.
Apples and Oranges. Stanton had an insane contract Florida was looking for someone to absorb, which drove down his trade value. Additionally, he had a no trade clause, so he had them by the balls, and the Marlins were stuck negotiating with 1 or 2 teams, and the Yankees knew they were desperate to move him. No way they were going to get a return for him
when will people stop being shocked when guys who are paid at their market value dont return all that much in trades? this isn’t new haha.
I’d take Gleyber 1-for-1. Or any 2 of Frazier, Adams, Andujar, Sheffield. Cole is gone in 2 years. Do it.
They should seek to get Torres – Cole is young, has two years of control left, and the Yankees can re-sign him to a longer deal. Frazier is a decent piece, but he would need to be packaged with Adams and one other prospect to make it a good deal for Pirates. Stick to your guns NH – walk away if the Yankees balk.
Ball Head Wonder just set a PP2 record for most exclamation points in a post.
My thoughts…. If they want Cole, make ’em pay.
–
When I see players like Torres future abilities spouted out like he’s the next big thing, I now realize that every team has at least one Tyler Glasnow, just like us. Cole was drafted by the Pirates, he’s been the lead on every future prognosis for the last 7 years. I want to see him pitch in a Pittsburgh uniform like the ace we’ve all been waiting for. I don’t want to read 6 years from now how Torres, the centerpiece of the Cole trade didn’t live up to his billing. Cutch is here now. Cole is here now. To borrow a awesome line from Secretariat, “let him run his race”. I feel if I don’t ever see Cutch and Cole at peak together somehow I got cheated. Today is yesterday and today is tomorrow, all here now…put the best 9 on the field and play.
I think we did see them leak three years ago.
That time has passed cabbo- you did. in 2015
So you suggest we employ that strategy again? Didnt work then…won’t work now.
We won 98 games 2 years ago. It worked. We just didnt win in the playoffs, its that simple
I would, the process was sound, the playoffs are a crap shoot.
Sounds like the captain of the Titanic…get nothing or little for either and this team will be set back by at least 3 years..
3 years from what? A loss in a one game playoff game?
If you like mediocrity continue pushing the rock up the hill with your nose. Cutch is better than any trade chip and no guarantee whom he is traded for is a major leaguer. Ditto for Cole…trust you minors..trust your draft and put the best players here and now on the field.
cabbo- that’s not how teams are built. We build with the best talent, then fill the holes with trades. if you don’t fill those holes, you can’t win.
Give me a recent example of that strategy used by the Pirates to succeed, or is that fantasy baseball you are conjuring?
Three years in a row in the postseason is an example. I would call that a success. What would be success to you? Would it have to be a world series win?
Yes. Exactly. It does have to be the World Series. If every player and Pirate admin does not wake up every morning look in the mirror and say “how can I become a champion today?” they should go back to bed. Please don’t tell me you give out participation trophies. Small market. Tough…WIN Less revenue. Tough…WIN Player injuries. Tough…WIN! Winning is the only thing that matters and that’s winning the World Series in baseball. If you are satisfied with one game playoffs you are part of the problem not the solution.
Lol so every organization that doesn’t win the series should be fired for incompetence? I really hope you don’t run a business. Here is the thing, every team does go out and try. Problem is only one team can win.
I run many businesses… and that is my mentality. You probably clock watcher that thinks you deserve fair treatment as an underachiever that your top producers do cos you gave it your best. Lol. Sorry. It’s tough out there.
A friend of mine from New York just told me the rumor there is Jordon Montgomery and Clint Frazier for Cole. I like Montgomery, but that is not a good deal for the Pirates. At the least, Andujar has to come back in any deal.
I would be beyond happy if we do get Montgomery instead of Adams or Sheffield. He’s shown that he can pitch in the majors. And about Andujar, the way the Yankees are handling 3B vacancy makes me question if they view Andujar as their future 3B at all. All reports tell his defense is bad and I certainly do not wish we get a 1B/OF prospect.
Can’t we throw in Rivero and get just about all their prospects….
This is my new favorite idea. Cole, Rivero, JHay, Minor league pitcher+ for Torres, Frazier, Andujar, Adams, and Floriel.
That’d be
Floriel, Frazier, Meadows
Andujar, Torres, Tucker, Bell
JT, Keller, Adams, Kuhl, TG/Trev/Brault/Kingham
Hayes, Newman, Polanco.
I’m off to fix another drink…
i wanted to be triggered and to think that was a ridiculous trade, but dang it, it actually seems kinda even haha. well done
I thought absinthe was illegal in the US.
Actually is has been legal since 2007 in the US. I have used it in a couple of cocktails and is very unique. I did not hallucinate.
I’d be fine with that.
Cole and Newman /Tucker for Torres, Frazier, and maybe a low A player.
I don’t give up Tucker. I think he could be pretty good.
Not better than Torres is the question though.
Probably not. But I’d not bet a lot on it. Tucker could be the leadoff hitter we have been missing for a long time. What Hanson was supposed to be.
I just hope any potential Cole trade to the Yankees works out better for the Pirates than the last major trade NH made with the Yankees (Xavier Nady & Damaso Marte to Yankees for Jose Tabata, Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf and Daniel McCutchen). The thing I didn’t realize was that George Kontos was amongst the Yankee prospects discussed during that deal nine years ago and now we have him.
How did that deal work out for the NYYs ?
That wasn’t a bad trade. Karstens was ok for awhile and Tabata was ok till he got the money.
Tabata was okay till his age caught up with him.
Last trade with the Yankees was Justin Wilson for Francisco Cervelli.
Before that was Exicardo Cayones and Diego Moreno for A.J. Burnett.
Pretty good history.
Kontos and Phil Coke were both discussed during that Yankees trade for Nady, and the Pirates later got both of them.
I think I would have rather kept Justin Wilson honestly
Knowing that Russell Martin was going to get more money elsewhere that offseason, the Pirates got they’re starting catcher for a reliever. Pretty good outcome for the Pirates.
Eh, it worked fpr one year really.
Who catches the last two years? Plus if we keep Wilson maybe we don’t go after rivero.
….and who would’ve been the Catcher the past 3 seasons…For what it’s worth since the trade – Cervelli 5.5fWAR, Wilson 3.3fWAR. I think NH won that trade as well.
Cervelli wasnt needed in 2017. Just my opinion. 2016 he provided no value, so we are really just talking about 2015. Im sure we could have traded someone less valuable, but its hindsight on my part, i realize. Just have aleays disliked cervelli fiercely
He had a 1.6 fWAR in 2016, that doesn’t equal no value….When he’s healthy, he’s a good MLB catcher. Problem is, staying healthy.
1.6 fWAR is basically zero value to me. Nothing that would have been missed by saving the money. He wasn’t good in 2017 and he was healthy. I’m not saying he’s garbage or valueless, but we HAVE to do better, and if we can’t, we should just start over and give Diaz the job and let him try.
Wasn’t Betances discussed as well?
I think the trade you mentioned turned out OK. At that point in time the Pirates needed bodies, especially pitchers.
That trade was better than OK. Marte was washed-up and never did anything for the Yankees. Nady was traded at peak value and reverted to being a mediocre 4th or 5th OF with an OPS in the .600’s.
WAR for the rest of their careers for the six players involved in the trade:
Tabata +1.9
Karstens +3.8
Ohlendorf +2.4
McCutchen +0.4
TOTAL +8.8 (all for PGH)
Nady -1.3
Marte -0.4
TOTAL -1.7
Damaso Marte was integral in the Yankees winning the World Series in 2009. I’m sure they don’t think it was a bad deal as it helped them bring home #27
Integral? Marte pitched 13 innings in 2009, with 9.45 ERA.
Better check the stats for the WORLD SERIES for 2009 there genius. Marte pitched in 4 games, 2 2/3 innings, 5 strikeouts, no baserunners.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2009_WS.shtml
And THAT line made him ” integral ” ? You have to be kidding,really.
Integral is a pretty strong term…2/3 of those innings came in a loss…so not very important Of the remaining two innings, one came when he entered the game with a 7-3 lead. He did his job series, but I’m pretty sure history would have been the same had he not been in the Yanks pen.
If you really knew anything about baseball you’d remember he played a really big part in the Yankees 09 series win.
Sorry that the truth hurts. Educate yourself a little better next time before you spout.
” Educate yourself a little better next time before you spout.” That works two ways pal. Continuing to try to prove one’s point isn’t always the way to go.
He played very little part in winning the WS and he was awful for the few games he pitched in the regular season.
That deal was a steal for the Bucs.
WAR for the rest of their careers for the six players involved in the trade:
Tabata +1.9
Karstens +3.8
Ohlendorf +2.4
McCutchen +0.4
TOTAL +8.8 (all for PGH)
Nady -1.3
Marte -0.4
TOTAL -1.7
Big win for the Bucs.
Wow, that went from zero to obnoxious in no time flat.
My argument wasn’t that he didn’t contribute, but was questioning the use of “integral”.
Hate to be the guy that pulls out the dictionary, but:
integral: necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
If it’s your contention the Yankees would not have won the WS without Marte, okay…I’m saying they, most likely, would have…thus Marte was neither essential, nor fundamental to their fortunes…hence, not integral.
English is a beautiful language when you understand some of the words…
Yeah, bet he knows EVERYTHING about baseball. Just ask him.
Joe- I think Blaine just laid it out there pretty well. You can’t misremember statistics.
This
I’ll be beyond surprised if NH is able to pry the game’s 2nd best prospect away from Yanks for Cole. I can assure you Yankees fans would be up in arms.
They just got Stanton- doubt anyone cares right now. This is an all in yankees team for 2018
Good point, but in this case, many Yankees fans are seeing this guy as the next Jeter.
Have you read pinstripealley.com? Yankees fans don’t think they should have to give anything more than a Low class A third-string catcher for
ANYBODY. So who cares what they think?
NH’s bread and butter is trading relief pitchers. Never been wowed by his ability to trade any other position.
There haven’t been many. Could be that’s our position of strength and we were dealing players others overvalued.
Add in Harrison and eat money if you have to. Get starpower however you can.
Totally agree.
This is common in any deal though. We ask for the highest and they start from the lowest. Ends up in the middle.
I think if they could acquire Frazier and the pitcher Adams along with another minor league pitcher with upside then they should complete the trade.
Much like last year a whole lot of talk about Cutch going to the Nats and never happened, this will be the same about Cole. MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING.
Ado…
A Shakespeare expert
Maybe Cole will have a bounce back year
If I recall correctly, the Yankees got Frazier, shetfield, and 2 bullpen arms for 1 1/3 years of Andrew Miller. While Miller is pretty good, I would have to think 2 years of a potentional top of the rotation arm (last year being an outlier) would be at least worth the same.
Hey is this Joey Cora.
Negative. No Joey Cora here
2 1/3
This is a move that will get us out of No Mans Land!!! To have a SS for the foreseeable future is Priceless!!! I would definitely go 1 for 1 here!!! Slide Kevin Newman over to 2nd!! Make the tough decision to move JHay and Cutch and get a nice haul from that!! The window is Closing on my man Cutch!! Let’s cut it while we have time and put it behind us!! Forget the whinnying and shoo-shooing and let’s go size up our WS Rings!!!
I like what you said, or swap Cole, Polanco, and Harrison for Torres and Frazier and…………..!
Ship has sailed on Pirates getting anything for McCutchen.
Bull. They might not wipe out another team’s farm system but they
WILL get a decent return for Cutch. That is “if” they trade him at all.
I refer you to last trade deadline, if you were trading a position player with zero time before FA the teams got zero for them..
Hmmm… you mean like Darvish? Getting the Dodgers third
best prospect, Willie Calhoun?
And the year before when the Yankees got Gleyber Torres,
Billy McKinney + for Aroldis Chapman.
Agree which is why Torres has to be in the deal. As a component of a rental deal for a reliever and now you want two years of a stud and he’s to much to ask for? Please Cashman works the media like nobody.
Anything? Yeah, ok, whatever.
Never hurts to ask for the best. I don’t see them Torres but hope a deal is still in the works
Always ask high, but if they could back off to Frazier, Sheffield, and Andujar, I think it could get done. Frazier just became their utility OF, so his value in pinstripes has dropped with the trade for Stanton. The Pirates may have to add another person to the mix.
I really hope this was reported wrong. NH is going to scare them into trading for someone else.
Then… let them! Gleyber Torres is who they should have been asking for all along. They don’t need Frasier. And Adams has the ceiling of a #3 .
Torres or bust.
so you get Frasier and Adams….
Or Frazier and Andujar. They need a 3b.
Or resigning CC. Might not mean anything but good negotiating tactic for the yanks.
I’d love to negotiate/trade w/ you.
Well the Yankees did just re-sign CC, so maybe he has already. Somewhat less of a need for Cole.