The guests and analysts on MLB Network were busy talking about possible Gerrit Cole and Josh Harrison trades on Thursday. Three videos linked below all have information on Harrison, with the last video focusing more on Gerrit Cole. Here’s a brief intro for each video.
Joel Sherman was up first, discussing how Cole and Harrison would fit with the New York Yankees. He believes that Harrison would be a bigger need for the Yankees, while Billy Ripken thinks Cole could help the team more by helping the pitching staff, thereby allowing young players to get regular playing time without worrying about them struggling on offense early on.
How much do the #Yankees need Gerrit Cole?@Joelsherman1 weighed in earlier this morning on #MLBNHotStove. pic.twitter.com/QwUUHszchg
— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) December 28, 2017
Joe Magrane and Tom Verducci discussed Harrison’s possible value. Jon Heyman reported last night that numerous teams were interested in Harrison. Verducci doesn’t believe his trade value should be that high with his remaining contract, plus free agent Eduardo Nunez providing similar value, without a team giving up any prospects to get him.
Our @JonHeyman is reporting that #Pirates IF/OF Josh Harrison is drawing interest from several teams. #MLBTonight pic.twitter.com/HJ1KEzEnyl
— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) December 28, 2017
The third video talks about the Yankees saying they are not done acquiring players. Richard Justice believes that a Cole trade should get done because the two sides are so deep into talks and Harrison could be part of the deal.
.@richardjustice joined #MLBTonight with the latest on a potential deal for #Pirates ace Gerrit Cole. #Yankees pic.twitter.com/dRyLGwWzO3
— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) December 29, 2017
John started working at Pirates Prospects in 2009, but his connection to the Pittsburgh Pirates started exactly 100 years earlier when Dots Miller debuted for the 1909 World Series champions. John was born in Kearny, NJ, two blocks from the house where Dots Miller grew up. From that hometown hero connection came a love of Pirates history, as well as the sport of baseball.
When he didn't make it as a lefty pitcher with an 80+ MPH fastball and a slider that needed work, John turned to covering the game, eventually focusing in on the prospects side, where his interest was pushed by the big league team being below .500 for so long. John has covered the minors in some form since the 2002 season, and leads the draft and international coverage on Pirates Prospects. He writes daily on Pittsburgh Baseball History, when he's not covering the entire system daily throughout the entire year on Pirates Prospects.
Harrison is the heart and soul of this team, if your giving them one more chance, then he must remain an integral part of the team./ There are no young guys internally who can replace him right now and I don’t see any trade prospects who can replace a multi-talented all-star. Could b a different story though if Cole is traded.
This may sound like a stupid idea but hear me out. I don’t know if the Yankees would be interested but here goes. Tim keeps talking about the Pirates being in No Mans Land but a big part of the reason why they are in that predicament is because of the uncertainty regarding Jung Ho Kang. It’s almost 2018 and we still don’t have any clearer picture as to whether he will be able to get a work visa to come and play for the Pirates in 2018. I’d say if the Pirates knew for sure that he was going to be back this coming season, we wouldn’t even be having these discussions regarding trading Cole, Harrison or McCutchen or for that matter anybody else. The Kang situation seems to be holding up everything else. I would imagine that NH has a better idea as to whether Kang will be available in 2018 for the Pirates but in my opinion, I think it’s going to be for the negative. So my stupid idea is this: why not trade the rights to Kang along with Cole to the Yankees. I don’t know what value Kang would have but I would have to think that a team like the Yankees with deeper pockets and probably closer ties to the Trump administration would have a better chance of working something out to get him his work visa. This would allow the Pirates to hold onto Harrison or trade him to another team. There is no reason to hold onto him, hoping that something can get worked out to get him back. As it stands, he’s basically rotting away on the shelf. Like I said, I don’t know what Kang’s value would be, given that he’s basically missed the entire past season.
You’re right, a very stupid idea.
I think the Pirates have to ask themselves, do they think there’s any chance that Kang plays for the Pirates again? Also do they think there is any chance that Kang plays for any MLB team again? I think it is time for the Pirates to move on from Kang. I realize his value has taken a dip due to the DUI info surfacing and missing last season. I say let another team deal with that headache and move on from it.
It is virtually certain that Kang will not play for the Pirates or any other MLB team in 2018, and Pirates have made this clear. They will either do something to fix this gaping hole, or go with 3B by committee of Freese/Harrison / S. Rod / Moroff and I’m afraid to guess who else.
What do you think NYY would want for Betances? I know he wants out. It’d be awesome to see him set up for Rivero and it would help our rotation immensely knowing you could shorten every game by 2 innings.
That would be so sweet. Thought about this earlier in the offseason. Bettances and Rivero would be elite.
elite and useless on a team gearing up for 2019-2020
Again, explain to me why the Pirates can’t contend next year? Did you expect the Brewers to contend last year with the leagues lowest payroll? Having two elite RPs to shorten the game for a young staff that came on strong at end of the year, seems like a recipe for wins to me.
Can’t is a strong word. Nothing is impossible, so I don’t need to explain anything. If you want to try to plan for a miracle, that sounds about as useless as my dad planning on how he’s going to spend his future lottery winnings. Be my guest. Having a team that cannot score runs means having elite RP’s is useless. If you don’t have a lead, they don’t pitch. If they don’t pitch, they have no value. If you want to win games on a team that has trouble scoring, it HAS to start with a strong rotation, which…..we currently don’t have, and certainly won’t have once Cole is traded.
I think our rotstion is just fine, even without Cole. One of TG, Brault, Kingham etc will step up and be adequate and at least replicate Coles numbers from the past 2 seasons. I think you all live too much on current results and never take into account age and progression. I understand it doesn’t always work out, but that’s more bad luck and injuries a lot of times hurting progression then natually players maturing and taking the next step.
Rotation being “just fine” when your offense is below average, gets your team to 75-87, even with a good bullpen. If you think that rotation without cole is going to be better than league average, you need to lay off the hash.
The Pirates had the second worst offense in all of baseball last year. Marte’s return help a little but they just are talented enough to contend. The Brewers have better talent than the Pirates. Sorry if that’s depressing but it is true. Just saying.
Brewers “talent” finally stepped up. That’s why they started performing well. Santana broke out as well as some others who had struggled in the previous seasons. If Polanco could stay healthy I expect he could but just as valuable as Santana was last year. I like Josh Bell and Jameson Taillon taking big steps forward as well.
Nothing wrong with having an elite BP when you are trying to develop starters. Nothing shakes the confidence of starting pitcher worse then pitching his tail off only to have a BP guy come in and blow it for him time and time again.
Bettances is not a free agent until 2020. Does no one plan ahead? So next year comes and you expect to be contenders and you have Bettances and Rivero still. What’s the issue?
The issue is that Rivero has much more value to another team right now as part of our rebuilding than it will have for us over the next two years, and that value cannot be recouped. It’s much easier to get that piece in 2020 when you are contending, and use the extra value you get from him now to GET your team back to contention. Rivero is literally the most valuable piece we have- and has zero value to a rebuilding team. So you trade him…..
Just because you trade pieces that are on expiring contracts isn’t rebuilding. Zero chance Cole would sign an extension here. It’s not about rebuilding but more about recouping value for an asset you aren’t going to have much longer. Harrison is the only one under team control for longer that could be dealt.
How does that interact with my statement? Or was it a response to something higher in the chain….? Oh- and trading your best pieces when they are expiring is rebuilding, because you don’t have anyway of recouping the value of the players that have left, just a small fraction of it (usually) Playing the middle ground is what you are suggesting, and that equals “contending” but never putting together a truly “strong” team.
Right on. I’d prefer a good hitting prospect who can help in a few years.
or two……or a hitter and a good catcher, or a hitter and ANOTHER Rivero type in AA that might be ready by 2020….
Who said you wouldn’t get one back in addition?
Tim or John,
Colorado trade
it’s time to move on from Yankees trade talks, actually Colorado matches up well for a trade. The Rockies actually need G Cole more than the Yankees. I would start by asking for top SS prospect Brendan Rodgers, they also have a catcher Tom Murphy that we should look at, Ryan McMahon is a stud at either corner, Riley Pint is a strong RH pitcher, Ryan Vilade is another SS if Rodgers is not obtained you have to get this guy.
Move on from Yankees already!!
Thank you. The NNY are not the only option. Colorado, Houston, Minnesota and others make sense. If Torres isn’t included, move on Neal
okay, so call NH- last time i checked, tim or john can’t make trades….unless they are owners in a keepers league i’m not aware of.
Nice thoughts.
Not named Tim or John but Col matches up really well for a mccutchen trade esp if they can’t land JD Martinez.
I think they match up well for Cole. I would love for us trade with tehm. They seem all in and have a top 3B prospect and SS as well. Heck I think I take Rodgers over Torres (personnel opinion). I love Mcmahon and he is suppose to be a really good defensive 3B who is ready for majors right now. I am sure there are a lot of other teams who can give the Pirates what they need. maybe the Dodgers can give us Verdugo and some prospects. remember both Harrison and Cole are under some really reasonable contracts for there value or potential value.
Exactly and if they have to package Cutch to pry out Rodgers so be it but they’re going to need to get Pint and a couple of the guys you mentioned. Hopefully Houston also has strong pieces they’re willing to part with as well – I have a suspicion that Houston has tunnel vision for Rivero and less interest in Cole etc.
I don’t know if this ‘pops’ anybody’s buttons, but I found this article.
Santurce “Crabbers” Once Had Clemente and Willie Mays In Same Outfield
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/santurce-crabbers-clemente-willie-mays-outfield/
Yes it did Mr. Lee.
Nice!
cashman wanted both of them for frazier, crabbers like the tigers and rays turned him down.
I’m thinking that this offseason will end up just like last year’s offseason….lots of rumors about trading and trading for players and nothing happens. (unless the Yankees decide to put Gleyber in a deal for Cole.)
If we are out of it at the trading deadline, THEN will we be dealing.
I agree, leefoo. My concern is whether or not Neal Huntington is willing to admit/capable of admitting “we are out of it at the trade deadline.”
A lot of talk. Not a lot of movement.
I agree foo. If they were going to deal Cole, I think it would have been done. If they had received a package they really liked, they would have traded him, I don’t believe they will receive a package they like, so there is no reason to deal him.
I think this year was very humbling for the team. I don’t think they’re under the illusion of contending in 2018 despite a comment or two from NH. Last year they shopped Cutch most likely to maximize return with 2 years remaining and the hope of Meadows by mid year. Now they appear to be at least listening on other players too. I think they make some deals now instead of June/July.
3 weeks ago I would have agreed with you. Now after giving this more thought, I’m of the belief Pirates are dealing at least
Appears to be a staring contest between Cashman and Huntington. Like to think NH wants Torres included if Yankees want both Cole & JHay.
I am still in the non believer column that any trade will get done. As far as MLB Network or any of the talking heads they are starving for material enough so to throw stuff on the wall to see if it will stick.
Don’t get me wrong I believe that Cole and McCutchen(can’t resign either) need to be traded like yesterday. Along with Harrison and Cervelli(just awful contract) also need to be included to jump start the rebuild. One more maybe Rivero….
I don’t think Harrison really costs the Yankees anything he is basically providing NY PR cover to cashman wanting to get the deal done and the pirates insisting on three guys whether Harrison is included or not. Nunez doesn’t have the defensive value but he mashes righties – pirates could use him at 3rd to platoon with Freese on the other hand wouldn’t want to block Andujar but Nunez can play SS marginally and 2b. Also Nunez will require the Yankees to give him 2yrs or more Harrison can be optioned next year.
This is great. Thanks for putting these videos together like this.
The deal between the Pirates and Yankees hopefully gets done. The Yankees could use Cole and Harrison, but the cost of Harrison is difficult for the Yankees to absorb while trying to stay under the Luxury Tax threshold.
I think Cole/Harrison for Frazier/Andujar/Sheffield is fair for both. Since the dollars are a concern, why don’t the Pirates absorb at least half of the Harrison money if the Yankees add another prospect to the deal.
If we’re giving up both, and NOT getting Gleyber Torres … well, that’s a bunch of crap. NH shouldn’t make a deal just for the sake of making a deal. We don’t have to make a trade. I’d argue we have to sell on Cutch now (in case he struggles out of the gate), not on Cole/JHay.
don’t want Frazier really weak ML numbers and a negative WAR when in the Majors. I would take Luplow over him at this time. Now replace Frazier with Torres then we got something
That is a very small sample with which to base a judgement. Looking at his minor league stats, he has consistently been above 10% walk rate. However, in his brief major league stint, it dipped to almost 5%. His strike out rate also jumped from a minors career mark of 28% up to 32%. All that points to a guy that was pressing trying to make an impression on his organization.
I would not base all of my opinions of him on 142 PA’s playing for the Yankees.
Look at his minor league numbers they are average at best. He reminds me of Snyder who I wouldn’t trade a potential number 1 pitcher and maybe the best super utility. As for salary the Yanks threw that out the window when they signed Stanton. They are all in right now. The reason they want to get rid of Frazier now is because another mediocre year at AAA would just ticket him as a AAAA player for life. It would be one thing if Frazier was a good OF or a fast runner or had tremendous power. He doesn’t He also has a lousy OBP to go with a high K rate and this is against AAA and AA pitchers. Let someone else try to unlock his potential. If it was a straight up deal for Harrison only then I say yes but I don’t think that’s the case. As I see it the Yanks need Cole more then we need what they are offering. There are 30 other teams wed can trade with that can use a number 1 or two pitcher with multiple years of control at a great price with a first rd pick attached at the end of the contract if they loose him
I guess where we differ even more than on Frazier is on Cole. I don’t see him as anything more than a #3 . He has had exactly one season where he pitched better than that and his track record, even in the minors, is that of a solid #3 . In my opinion, if you can get Frazier, Andujar and Adams for a #3 , how do you turn that down?
Maybe a solid #3 on a world series contender, but not a #3 on an average team. If you are talking specifically about where he’d fit on the Yankees, okay…..#3 is reasonable.
I was speaking specifically to the results he has pitched to over the last 2 seasons. Pirates fans just need to realize that he is not that good if a major league pitcher. He is average, and outside of 2015, that is what he has been since he was the Friday night pitcher at UCLA. Just an average pitcher. In other words, he is what we were led to believe Bryan Bullington was going to be.
How can you specifically point to recent results to dictate what number pitcher he is. What he is, is a 2 that sometimes pitches like a 1, and sometimes like a 3. Thats pretty much beyond debate. And no…. he isnt average. This isnt a guy with 6 years experience, you cant cherry pick years. He was good in 2014, 2015, injured in 2016 and lackluster in 2017 due to hr problems. There isnt more to it than that
He was ok in 2014, good in 2015, average in 2016 and below average in 2017. I would call that an average pitcher that had one season that was good. That makes that year the outlier, not this past season.
I’m not sure how you are defining “average”
In 2014 his ERA+ was 99 and his FIP was 3.23, both average numbers. In 2015 his ERA+ was 149 and his FIP was 2.66, both well above average. In 2016 his ERA+ was 107 and his FIP was 3.33, both average. In 2017 his ERA+ was 101 and his FIP was 4.08. ERA+ average is 100, so in 3 of his major league years, he has been average as per ERA+. His FIP on the other hand, has been average in 2 seasons, great in one and bad in one, which would be considered average.
I guess I should quantify me calling him average, he himself, has multiple above average pitches, however, his results have been very much average. I would go so far as to say that has more to do with the Pirates pitching philosophy than his actual abilities, but none the less, his results have been average.
Agree, you have to take those 3 if offered, but I think IC Bob is right on Frazier. His OPS and HRs/ABs for the last 3 years in minors are comparable to Luplow. I know that using those stats only doesn’t give a complete picture, but it’s not insignificant.
G and IC: Luplow is one of my fav’s, but as long as Marte is in LF, Luplow and Osuna will be bench strength at best. Have you guys taken a look at Marte’s number of K’s to walks, HR’s/AB lately. In his last 800 AB he has hit only 16 HR, and has walked only 43 times while striking out 167 times – about a 4/1 K/W Ratio.
I want a young OF we own for 6+ years who can hit 20+ HR/yr while putting the ball in play – staying around a 2/1 K/W Ratio. We have that in both Luplow and Osuna, but if we trade for a “name” like Frazier, we will have to play him. I also advocate trying to sign ‘Cutch for the rest of his career – led the team in 4 offensive categories in 2017 – HR, 2B, Walks, Runs scored, and 2nd in RBI.
How about Cole to the Angels for Jahmai Jones, Brandon Marsh, and Chris Rodriguez. Is there any team in baseball in more of a need for a No. 1 and a “big brother” to Ohtani?
Agree on adding dollars, but Sheffield is an under-sized pitcher who seems to have to use maximum effort on his pitches. Those type of pitchers, IMO, seems to get injured more often than not. Give me Adams.
If we are trying to re-load for a quick turnaround, we don’t just need prospects, we need prospects at specific positions. Frazier and Andujar meet that need but, with our glut of AA and AAA pitchers, Sheffield does not.
Plus, I think Cole for Frazier & Andujar is the first component and, I think, it makes us a better team in 2018.
That would mean the ‘second’ component is Harrison for Sheffield. And it would certainly make us worse in 2018. Now if they had another catcher to throw our way…
But if the Pirates trade for Clint Frazier, are we assuming that McCutchen is definitely out the door in a follow-up move. Four outfielders with only 3 spots available. To me, if the Yankees aren’t going to move off their stance of holding onto Torres, we had better get at least 3 quality guys just for Cole. That could be Frazier, Andujar and a third quality guy. That third guy could be Sheffield. Now if we add Harrison with Cole, we’d better pick up at least 2 additional guys in addition to the three aforementioned. That’s still assuming that the Yankees decide to hold onto Torres. I know NH just signed a 4 year extension but if he don’t get this deal right, he’s not going to be around to see another extension. I think he even knows this deal is the key deal in everything else they do this offseason. I’m of the thinking that they need to blow it all up. This team has aged very quickly on the Pirates and the Pirates either didn’t do enough to retain good pitching specifically (Burnett, Volquez, Happ) or when it came time to trade some guys such as Neil Walker, they didn’t get great value in return.
I think you only include Harrison to get Torres. I don’t think he gets moved in a deal that includes Frazier
I am not looking for a quick turnaround as much as I am looking younger, clearing out guys who are short-term at best, and trying to add positional depth with power potential.
I like what you just said. The Pirates need to make a deal and based on the clips I just heard including Harrison in the deal makes sense. The Pirates simply have to get better.
Don’t think 5 to 10 million being sent to Yankees for an extra prospect would help the Pirates.
Cole and Harrison are proven players. If both are involved then their best prospect must be included.
Let the Yankees dump bad contracts on some other team to get under the cap.
florail adams and anduar and maybe 2 players to be named latter , for cole and harrison and cash maybe as much as 5 million.
Doubt very seriously that we can get that much – Cashman is way too sharp and the Pirates are not in the catbird seat.
No thank you. Nothing against the idea, but if I am giving up Cole and Harrison, and eating money, I just want more.
Then again, I seem to be one of the very few people that isn’t down on Frazier, and I firmly believe that he would fill an area of need. I have never been high on Meadows, and the chances of Meadows, Polanco, McCutchen and Marte making it through the season injury free is basically zero.
I would be good with Frazier, Adams, and Andujar for Cole and Harrison, but I would not eat money to get the deal done, and I would ask for more, but I am not the GM, so my opinion doesn’t really count, and my knowledge of Yankee prospects is severely lacking.
Thank you for gathering and posting these snippets. It’s hard to catch any Pirate news on the networks. This collection was particularly interesting, of course, as it deals with a possible trade. Interesting that Harrison is considered to be such a valuable piece to the possible trade.
Don’t you find it odd that the only people that don’t like Harrison are the Pirate fans that are upset that he is getting paid full value for what he provides?
It is very odd, as he also seems to be a vital cog in a great clubhouse culture. His fire and love for the game make him one of my favorite players.
I agree. Why not keep him one more year? He is a great clubhouse presence. If you need salary relief, jettison Freese and S-Rod. They cost the same.
Harrison can start at third, if Moroff doesn’t work out, J-Hay could move to second. If Merecer is injured early in the year, J-Hay could probably cover SS until Newman can take a shot at it. If Polanco is injured, plop himin there…
I’d pass on Harrison at short, but I get your point.
I was thinking of only a month tops
Wouldn’t play Josh at short for an inning, much less a month.
We need to go in a different. Trade Josh, Cole, Cutch and if we find a buyer Cervelli. We lost with them, we can lose without them.
I loved Neil Huntington. It’s just been a series of bizarre moves(or lack of moves) over the past three years that have changed my opinion of him. Its been a marked change in direction and there is the feeling of there being no direction or plan, which is very different from his tenure up to this point. I always felt like he had a plan and always felt like he was building toward something. Now it feels aimless. To me he can redeem himself with some good trades. Flip Cole, Harrison, Cutch, and Cervelli. Get some prospects and some MLB ready pieces and let the young guys have a shot at competing. They have just as much chance as the veteran laden team of the last three years.
i completely agree rich
Yes. I do. Along with all the other skewed views here. Such as- NH, the guy that built a winning team already with a pile of garbage left over from littlefield, can’t possibly be smart enough to build a winning team.
It’s odd. Burnett, Liriano, Volquez, Martin, Cervelli (prior to contract), Melancon, Rivero, Kang, and Happ were are incredible moves. The McCutchen and Marte contracts were genius. We’ve seen great decisions and unfortunately we’ve just had two years of seeing some awful luck. Couldn’t predict Kang and Marte issues, Cole didn’t seem like a guy about to regress, Glasnow was loved by the entire baseball world heading into 2016, Polanco seemed poised for a big breakout. It’s just been a lot of bad luck the past two years. That and underperformances.
Yep. Just rotten luck, that’s all. Once our luck returns to baseline the sky is the limit.