Pirates Discussion: Trip to the Capitol

This is the final week of June, which has brought its handful of ups and downs, while giving us a possible glimpse into the future of the team.

What are some of the highlights from June that you look forward to seeing continue in July? Or, are you just looking forward to the draft’s arrival, and subsequent trade deadline?

The Pirates will travel from Tampa to Washington, D.C. to take on the Nationals for their second, and final, matchup of the season. Earlier this year, the Pirates took three of four at home.

The Nationals are 20th in Team OPS, while 29th in Team ERA.

PIRATES @ NATIONALS

Time: 7:05 PM EST

Pirates Starter: TBD

Nationals Starter: Erick Fedde (5-5, 4.46 ERA)

Lineups and the starter will be posted when available.

UPDATE: Miguel Yajure will get the start today for the Pirates. The Pirates made some changes. Lineup to come…

Pirates

Nationals

1. Cesar Hernandez (S) 2B
2. Juan Soto (L) RF
3. Josh Bell (S) 1B
4. Nelson Cruz (R) DH
5. Luis Garcia (L) SS
6. Keibert Ruiz (S) C
7. Yadiel Hernandez (L) LF
8. Maikel Franco (R) 3B
9. Lane Thomas (R) CF

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redwards60

Earth to Shelton…stop using Stratton in high leverage situations. How many more losses will it take for you to figure that out?

jon6er

Shelton was overheard calling Stratton ‘my tank man’.

skliesen

It’s pretty obvious DS hasn’t unlocked the secret to bringing a late inning lead home without the luxury of pitching Bednar for 2 or more innings. Here’s a hint, pitching a RP who’s best suited to go 1 inning for 2 innings isn’t the right answer.

That being said, the fact they even had a chance to win by scoring 2 runs on a night they were forced to call up Yajure to start is amazing in itself. If Pirates want to win games, score more than 2 runs against one of MLB’s worst pitching staffs.

emjayinTN

The Pirates got some juice from the younger prospects brought up such as Contreras, Cruz, Suwinski, Madris, Mitchell, Vieaux, De Los Santos, and were up over a 400 winning percentage. It also helped that Mitch Keller developed into at least a 5 inning SP in 2022. But, here’s the real scorecard as we near the mid-point of the 2022 season –

2020 – 19-41 .317 Winning percentage
2021 – 61-101 .377 Winning percentage
2022 – 29-44 .397 Winning percentage

BC is safe because he has pulled off some excellent trades, and has shown positive innovation in his approach to the Amateur Draft. There is no such salvation for Shelton, nor should there be any. The Manager has to take what the GM provides and build a winner – he has failed miserably and needs to be gone ASAP.

AdministrativeSky236

Looks like bednar wasnt available tonight, those 8 out saves and 50 pitch outings mightve finally come back around

emjayinTN

Not sure if Bednar would have been available or not in the 9th had Stratton held the lead through the 8th. Stratton has picked the worst time of his career to go into a slump. Had this been one of his normal years, he would have been worth something at the trade deadline. He is quickly lowering the return.

jon6er

I’d like to think the league cared enough about baseball fans to punish teams that tank as egregiously as the Pirates are doing….but then maybe we’re right that Cherington and Shelton really do suck and so the league can’t punish stupid.

redwards60

I doubt the league is too concerned about anything the Pirates do or don’t do.

jon6er

I should have begun that statement with “In a perfect world” because I get that baseball is in fact ruled by the wealthy owners.

PirateRican21

The only fane the league care about go by the nickname Benjamin.

jon6er

They talk a good game with an occasional press statement about teams ‘should not tank’ but yeah wealthy owners and lucrative media contracts outweigh the common fan.

AdministrativeSky236

Looking forward to tomorrow’s article drop so i can wipe these negative feelings away!

1979andCounting

We are seriously missing NH’s guys, Mears and Cederlind. But BC goes out and gets a washed up Hembree.

Wilbur Miller

The idiot’s idea for late-inning relief was Hembree and Banda. Both gone now, belatedly. Speaks volumes about his judgment.

Wilbur Miller

They’ve now lost four straight very winnable games. Too bad GMBS is too encouraged to see that, first, they’ve got way too many useless players on the roster, second, he’s totally mismanaged the bullpen, and third, his manager hasn’t the slightest idea what he’s doing. Instead, GMBS will just prattle about how they’re close and ignore the fact that easily fixable problems are what’s keeping them losing.

Wilbur Miller

Sorry to keep carrying on about this, but I can stand guys making errors, bad pitches, whatever. But this staggering level of GM and managerial incompetence is beyond anything I’ve ever seen before.

skliesen

Please quit sugarcoating your point of view and tell us what you really think Wilbur. Ha.

Unfortunately, the truth hurts sometimes. BC failed hard in giving DS a competent roster last winter, and DS has no clue how to use the players he was given. A bad combination.

emjayinTN

Sorry I did not come this far down – I repeated about the same to you above

redwards60

Compared to his entire career, last year was an obvious outlier.

SBRO

Well, at least his tier of reliever has that kind of variance. I’m kinda shocked he managed about 3 years of solid pitching before he reverted back to what he was when the Pirates first picked him up. But this is kind of what happens when you build a bullpen from other teams’ discards. Sooner or later they remind you why you were able to pick them up for free in the first place.

emjayinTN

Good point and exactly why we need to continue to build from within. I think Vieaux and Yerry have shown their value to the future, and there are 4 or 5 others at AA/AAA who can be up later this year. Stratton is here through the trade deadline.

ricramer

He’s next on the list of DFA candidates.

Wilbur Miller

These idiots understand reliever variance about as well as they do sunk costs.

Wilbur Miller

Let’s see whether Dumbo has the teeny-weeny bit of brainpower needed to bat for Perez.

1979andCounting

Smh he let him bat. That’s Chavis AB 100% of the time.

Wilbur Miller

I think it’s Hurdle all over again, only much, much worse. Dumbo cares more about operating a Home for Disadvantaged Veteran Ballplayers than about winning games. He’s probably trying desperately to help Perez salvage his career. Fuck the fans.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wilbur Miller
1979andCounting

They DFAed and released Perez last year. Yet here we are.

Wilbur Miller

GMBS is such an idiot, he not only loves guys that the other 29 teams don’t want, he even loves the guys he doesn’t want.

Wilbur Miller

And no.

To make matters worse, Dumbo doesn’t run for Vogelbach, who needs three triples to score from first. Then he runs for VanMeter with Chavis, who’s his best bench bat. And then he lets the .120 hitter bat with the game on the line. The moron HAS to be trying to lose.

mikeschalke

It’s criminal that he didn’t pinch hit Chavis there. He is a Moron!!!

ricramer

Unbelievable….

PiratePrimate

Letting Stratton hang out to dry is bullshit leadership from Shelton.

PirateRican21

I still believe that this is a solid bullpen, the problem is that Shelton mismanage it over and over.

Wilbur Miller

Good thing we’ve got a whole bullpen of middle relievers and no late-inning guys beyond Bednar.

bucsws2014

We can Vieaux them to sleep.

1979andCounting

And we have no one even warming up!!

Wilbur Miller

Dumbo strikes again. I can’t believe how incompetent this guy is.

1979andCounting

Getting absolutely no production from our #2 and 3 hitters, and of course our #8 .

Wilbur Miller

Against the second-worst pitching staff in MLB.

Wilbur Miller

I think Stratton may have reached his sell-by date.

phieralph

BEAM

Wilbur Miller

Ha, only 110 EV. He barely hit it.

b mcferren

lazer beam – – – pew pew

1979andCounting

Respectable outing for Yajure. Get him out now, do not send him thru a third time.

1979andCounting

Definitely, good fortune and 2 DP’s, all without having a strikeout pitch (0 K’s).

Wilbur Miller

Not exactly a playstation line, but it worked out fine.

PiratePrimate

How many of those one hop shots do you think Charlie Hayes hit to his son in the last 10 years?

roibert.kasperski

The answer is ……..4?.

Last edited 1 month ago by roibert.kasperski
PiratePrimate

He needs to have enough sense to know who’s on deck with two outs.

b mcferren

what’s his nickname on his arm band? El Mon? what’s that translate to?

phieralph

The Monkey

PirateRican21

No, is nothing, looks like a name got shortened, perhaps el monstro ( the monster) The monkey is el mono or el chango. I don’t think he would just drop the o if it was el mono.

PiratePrimate

Yajure is a great bowler. Bouncing pitches up there for outs.

Last edited 1 month ago by PiratePrimate
b mcferren

any chance VanMeter can be our starting catcher?

Wilbur Miller

No. He’s hitting over .120.

b mcferren

just call up tank

ricramer

Yajure can’t miss bats.

PirateRican21

He’s a pitch to HARD contact guy!

Wilbur Miller

With Yajure and Ro, the Pirates got two guys they thought were breaking out. Ro went the right way, Yajure went the wrong way.

PiratePrimate

Sometimes guys pitch between the rain drops, Yajure pitches between the lightening bolts

phieralph

Phew, I think that’s a homer for Nelson Cruz last year.

PiratePrimate

There’s my man, Josh VanMeter. Great play. WS 2023 MVP

jon6er

After his last play he’ll need to start another streak to that Gold Glove at first😏

chappy

Reynold’s K rate heading North again. Might be at 24% after that 1st k. This season has been a grind for him. I feel like he finds himself for a bit and then gets thrown off again.

phieralph

Sheesh, I know Fedde’s numbers aren’t great but he looked legit in that 1st inning. Threw the ball exactly where he wanted to.

EightMenOut

Washington has just one left handed reliever, so we are starting a line up with just one right handed batter against the right handed starter.

Last edited 1 month ago by EightMenOut
EightMenOut

May only interest me, but it shows by having a weak/no bullpen from the left side, it allows the other team to stack their line up with left handers. So you have put your right handed starters in a more difficult position from the first inning onward.

1979andCounting

Pirates have the same BP and starter mix as Nats. One LH of each.

Wilbur Miller

It’s Yajure.

EightMenOut

I was at the game six weeks ago where he faced 7 batters, walked 4, gave up a home run, and only made it through 2 outs in the first. He could not locate his breaking balls, and batters were just looking for fast ball strikes. He has to locate his breaking stuff in the strike zone.

roibert.kasperski

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie
It’s Yajure!!

jon6er

Early cocktails, I love it.

roibert.kasperski

It’s always 5pm somewhere!!!

jon6er

Indeed it is, lol.

AdministrativeSky236

Also banda dfa and mitchell to Indy for van meter

Wilbur Miller

Yajure, VanMeter in.
Mitchell to AAA.
Banda dfa’d.

Wilbur Miller

I think the pitching moves probably mean Yajure goes back and Underwood returns in a day or two.

roibert.kasperski

Thanks, Just was about to open the office window and head out on the ledge I could not bear the wait any longer

1979andCounting

Idk, they need a 5th starter. A good outing today might keep Yajure around.

Wilbur Miller

I’m just guessing. He’s not stretched out much, so it probably means a bullpen game today. They could send him back and do that with somebody else this weekend.

Also, I think these have been noted, but Marisnick and Kranick are on the 60-day IL. Marisnick could return July 9 or 10 or so.

EDIT: And Hembree cleared waivers and was released.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wilbur Miller
1979andCounting

And Eickhoff cleared waivers and will remain in Indy.

1979andCounting

I really don’t think Marisnick will ever wear the Pirate uni again. Love the guy’s defense, but can’t hit worth a lick lol.

1979andCounting

Jake with the 14 OPS+….lol. We’re past that now, moving forward with the build.

AdministrativeSky236

Makes sense to me, not too upset about this first round of moves as banda needed to go and mitchell needs some more time in Indy

RAS TN

So is the mystery of who the starting pitcher is for today’s game been solved??? really didn’t want to scroll down…

roibert.kasperski

roibert.kasperski

LOL!

Wilbur Miller

Stupid Trade Tricks:

This one’s from a Bowden interview in The Athletic. (I think the idea was the other guy’s.). Bednar to Bos for Bobby Dalbeck.

Wtf? Dalbeck is 27 and having a terrible year. At best, he’s Michael Chavis. And he fills no Pgh need whatsoever.

It really pisses me off when nat’l writers assume the Pirates only exist to help the big markets.

ArkyWags

Wilbur, you know better than to hate read or hate listen to anything by Bowden!

Oddly enough, FG had a Sunday mention of Bednar as probably the best bullpen piece teams may try to acquire at the deadline. While I’d be open to trading Bednar more than Reynolds, I simply don’t think teams would pay what he’s worth in terms of quality and years of control. It’d probably have to be a Hassell from SD or a Casas from Boston or a Pages from LAD. And I don’t think teams would pay that.

RAS TN

History does tend to repeat itself(bad trades by the Pirates)…so there is that…talking heads what would we do without them they are just as useless as all the hundreds of cable channels or the goalie for a soccer team…

Last edited 1 month ago by RAS TN
Catch_22

Doesn’t even make sense. If it was Triston Casas, then things get interesting

AdministrativeSky236

Casas and bello… now GMBC will take the call

roibert.kasperski

GMBC will take the call regardless. The question is how long will the caller hear him laughing before he hangs up the phone.

Catch_22

Doubt he gets both. He may even need to add another piece with Bednar to get Casas. I think Casas going into the season was a top 25 guy

AdministrativeSky236

Oops! Reynolds trade talk from earlier had me thinking of him in this situation instead of bednar

Wilbur Miller

They segued into a Bednar/BRey blockbuster. That’d have to be, “Here’s our whole MiL roster. Take six.”

Wilbur Miller

Bowden’s an idiot, but the main purpose is to entertain big market fans.

roibert.kasperski

His take definitely plays into the thought processes of fans. Still remember the Yanks fans talking about the garbage they wanted to offload and they claimed would have been more than enough for Cole. Old enough to have listed to decades of fans of several cities including Pittsburgh calling up to talk show hosts and offering up laughable trade scenarios. We have those in the Burgh that think it is plausible to package Chang, Yoshie, Vogie, Micky Perez, and Van Meter to sweeten the deal and get some one like Rutschman to catch. The rationale would be that they would be giving the O’s a catcher so they would have to take the deal.

hoptown

What I would do…
1) When Gamel is ready, send C Mitchell down for a little more playing time/seasoning.
2) When Newman is ready, send D Castillo down for a little more playing time/seasoning.
3) When Newman is ready, move J Marisnick to the 60-day DL
4) When Underwood is ready, DFA A Banda
5) When Marcano is ready, option H Park to AAA
6) When Tsutsugo is ready, DFA Y Chang.
7) When Van Meter is ready, DFA him
8) Look to trade Gamel, Vogelbach, Newman, Quintana, Stratton, and Crowe, if you can get anything for them. Quintana is the only one with any real value. The others would get a low level suspect at best.
9) Listen to offers for Reynolds and Bednar, but I’d have to be blown away.

skliesen

I agree with most of your suggestions, but I don’t see any reason to keep Tsutsugo. Clearly he was a player who should not have been signed. I’d DFA him before Van Meter.

No way I’m trading Crowe. He has way more value to organization than whatever low level prospect they might be able to get for him.

Newman could be a good bench bat/late inning defensive replacement/weak side platoon player on a winning team. He definitely has value in a trade, or even to Pirates next year for the right money.

roibert.kasperski

Marisnick is on the 60 day IL already.

hoptown

I actually wondered if I had missed that. Then DFA whomever. Stout or Fletcher I suppose.

roibert.kasperski

Those would work.

tedwins

I dont care enough about this year to opine on 1-7, that crap will work itself out… But hoptown, on item 8, what has you so low on Crowe? He seems to be a decent piece, going forward, in the pen….

hoptown

I’m not “low” per se. But I think they’d be selling high right now, which I think they should do. Long term, I think he’s a middle reliever at best. So if I could get a real prospect for him, I would.

Catch_22

The team in general has been pretty competitive, they said on the telecast that the Pirates are 2nd in baseball in 2 run games, behind only Tampa.

A goal of Ben’s should be to consult with Huntington on how to assemble a bullpen

Mblee24

I agree. The bullpen is so bad. However, if you look at most of their numbers they aren’t terrible. But it seems they take turns blowing it. Banda needs to go and they could use a watson to melancon for Bednar.

Here are the ERA’s of current bullpen:
Bednar 1.78
De Jong 1.93
De Los Santos 2.89
Beede 3.06
Crowe 3.27
Stratton 5.22
Banda 6.41

You would think Peters 3.86 ERA will help when he replaces Banda. WHIPs are all under 1.30 other than Banda and Stratton as well.

Catch_22

ERA can be deceiving, especially for pen arms…

Bednar 1.78 era 2.39 FIP
DeJong 1.93 era 4.88 FIP
De Los Santos 2.89 era 4.30 FIP
Beede 3.06 era 3.24 FIP
Crowe 3.27 era 3.25 FIP
Stratton 5.22 era 3.70 FIP
Banda 6.41 era 3.79 FIP

Problem with these guys is that other than Bednar and maybe Crowe, none can pitch in leverage. It’s a bunch of long relief guys and you don’t need a pen full of long relief arms. You need bat missing, high leverage guys. Cherington needs to find a Grille, a Watson, a Hanrahan, a Melancon, a Wilson, a Rivero. A top 5 closer and a bunch of replacement arms isn’t going to move the needle.

Last edited 1 month ago by Catch_22
Mblee24

All their FIPs are good too? I think Banda sucks though his FIP is unexpectedly good. But you are right they cannot pitch in high leverage situations. Which is why numbers can be deceiving. That’s why I’ve liked them throwing De Jong and De Los Santos into close games recently. You have to see if their good numbers can translate into leverage situations. But I agree they need 2-3 more guys.

Colin

Not ready for the IL guy’s to come back just yet. I like Gamel, the dude plays hard and plays the right way, but not if it’s taking playing time away from the young bucs. This team has been so much fun to watch lately, but with Yoshi, Newman, and guy’s like Marisnik coming back, that excitement will fade.

Catch_22

I think I’ve seen enough of Cal Mitchell. He and Castillo are part of the reason they lost yesterday. I’ve seen Castillo miss multiple tags at 2b and Mitchell is one of the worst RF’ers I’ve seen. I’m intrigued with Suwinski and Madris

Colin

Can’t argue that. I’m by no means writing either one of them off just yet but I do agree with you. Cal doesn’t have the arm to be out there. I’m hoping Suwinski turns into our next Van Slyke. I’m most likely an idiot for asking this but, is GMBC overlooking a few of the guys that Huntington brought in to the system, for his own group of guys he’s brought in?

Catch_22

It’s not just Cal’s arm, a competent RF’er makes that play. He gets bad reads, bad jumps, bad routes…reminds me of Josh Bell out there.

I don’t think he’s overlooking guys.

PiratePrimate

You’re watching the reasons he wasn’t placed on the 40 man in the first place

AdministrativeSky236

Any idea on who could be starting tonight? I think wilson just pitched for Indy, so not sure who else might be getting it unless we are rolling with a bullpen game

EightMenOut

I am guessing they throw DeLosSantos, Vieaux, for up to 40 pitches each, then fill in behind with a parade of relievers for one inning each. After the game they can then option DLS or Vieaux to the minors for a fresh arm in case it is needed for the following few games.

PirateRican21

I just asked Shelton, is gonna be Bednar for 8 innings.

1979andCounting

I’m not looking forward to this, but there’s Eric Stout. A recent dumpster dive on the 40-man.
He’s been primarily a starter in minors.

1979andCounting

Well, it’s probably not Stout then. It’s a real mystery, which is shameful we’re at this point with our staff. Speaking of shameful, If I see Shelton use another position player to pitch in mop up, I think I’m going to explode!

AdministrativeSky236

Ding ding, we have a winner! Forgot about him, but I have an unfortunate feeling that you might be right there, good call!

Catch_22

Vogelbach kinda looks like Farley

roibert.kasperski

The Nats would be not be expecting a old guy with a bum arm lobbing Eephus pitch after Eephus pitch 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by roibert.kasperski
PirateRican21

I believe in you, I believe you gonna fail! Besides, how often can you get the pitch to the plate. Over/under 10x.

roibert.kasperski

Definitely over 10x……..well if the Nat’s are nice enough not to deposit 10 over N street first 🙂

PirateRican21

Ok that makes you as good an option as Yajure.

roibert.kasperski

https://youtu.be/358MSC0P968

It would look something like this 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by roibert.kasperski
roibert.kasperski

Love my old movies! My wife never could understand how I could watch old movies dozens of times!

AdministrativeSky236

Wouldnt mind DUJ for a few to start, surprisingly he has been very good this year which has taken me by surprise. Dont know where the other 6 innings would come from though

SouthernBuc

I am guessing some combo of pitchers that does not require a 40 man roster move. Have our long relievers pitched much lately?

Catch_22

Beede has been pitching well, even missing bats lately. I’m close to being all in on him. He’s got a good arm, pumping heat at 97

AdministrativeSky236

I agree, both he and underwood jr were guys I had less than 0 hope for, and yet they have both proven to have stuff that plays and decent results. At this rate, they both will have spots secured for this year and beyond in the pen.

AdministrativeSky236

Not helpful for today, but any idea if peters will be good to go anytime soon? Could both give us a little more length and finally send banda packing

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