Impact of the Reese McGuire Trade on Altoona’s Staff; Jin-De Jhang’s Turn

ALTOONA, PA – If you, as a fan, think the trade deadline is tough to stomach, imagine being one of these players who just hopes it’s not their phone that rings as 4 PM approaches on Deadline Day. You do whatever you can to distract yourself, especially if you have an off day like the Altoona Curve did on Monday.

A small group of players hit up a local golf and played an 18-hole scramble amongst themselves, while another group decided to hop on some inner tubes and go for a float down the Stonycreek River in nearby Johnstown, PA. Reese McGuire was a part of the latter.

A member of the Pirates organization actually had to call another player to try to get a hold of McGuire, telling him to immediately call Larry Broadway, the Pirates’ Director of Minor League Operations. That is the reason why the Pirates had to wait so long to announce the move — because they had to wait until they got ahold of McGuire himself.

After the dust settled and the deal went through, players were still quite shocked about the departures of Ramirez and McGuire, especially the former first round pick. One player told me that he was confused about the trade and the reasons behind it, not really understanding why two players of such a high caliber would be traded without a major leaguer in return.

Another player asked me if I knew anything about the list of player options provided to the Yankees to complete the Nova trade.

Obviously, the trade deadline weighed heavy on the players in Altoona, especially after seeing two of their own moved.

The emotional impact will subside over time. But, what about the impact felt on the field by losing a player like Reese McGuire — especially to the pitching staff? It has been well documented that the Pirates felt McGuire was performing at a major league level defensively already, as he has received the respect of pitchers and coaches up and down the system.

For the current Altoona staff, the loss of McGuire may take some adjustment. Last week, I asked Pitching Coach Justin Meccage and Curve Manager Joey Cora about the importance of McGuire.

“He’s taken this pitching staff and has tried to figure them out, meaning establishing a relationship with them,” Meccage said during the Curve’s last home stand before the trade deadline. “What makes them tick? What pitches on what side of the plate do they want to throw to? He’s getting with every guy and establishing that relationship so they can trust them. That’s his biggest improvement that we’ve seen as the years went on. He’s taken a lot of time in establishing that relationship with these guys.”

Cora was much more brief but just as complimentary on McGuire, saying that “good catchers in the big leagues are very scarce, and he could easily be one of them.”

McGuire said last week that this season has been his best professional one so far from a defensive standpoint.

“I’m back-picking guys, being aggressive,” McGuire said. “I feel like the guys can trust me with being able to throw a ball in the dirt and knowing that it won’t go past me. I’m keeping it front, so they aren’t afraid to spike something to try to get a swing. I always feel confident in myself.”

He acknowledged the importance of getting to know each and every pitcher, saying that three years of working together has really helped develop those relationships.

“Learning the guy off the field is just as important as on the field,” he said. “You need to learn to approach each pitcher that goes up on the bump appropriately and differently. What makes each guy tick and what gets them going.”

“Everyone loves Johnny. Everybody has always loved Johnny. It’s his team now.”

Justin Meccage said that they feel extremely good about giving Jin-De Jhang (“Johnny”) the everyday opportunity to play and catch this pitching staff. Jhang has spent a short amount of time in Triple-A this season; however, he has been working with the majority of this pitching staff for several seasons throughout the Pirates’ system.

“I had him two years ago in the Florida State League, and he’s come an extremely long way, especially with his English,” Meccage said about Jhang. “He can read English now, so he can read a pitching report, which is huge. He can understand English if you talk slow enough, and he speaks enough that he can clearly communicate his message. I’m really excited for him because he’s got a real shot. He can hit well, and he’s becoming a very good receiver. He’s improved in his game calling, too.”

Curve manager Joey Cora stated the importance of moving forward with the players you currently have and not dwelling on who you used to have.

“Obviously they are losing a friend [in McGuire],” Cora said. “As far as playing, somebody else is going to step up. It’s a great opportunity for Jhang to be the regular catcher for this team.”

Jhang’s time has been limited so far this season, as he only had only started 27 games for the Curve leading up to the trade deadline. He is hitting .283 with a .691 OPS so far at Double-A. Although the OPS seems low, he has shown good gap power and the ability to spray the ball around the field. His defense was definitely spotty to begin the season, but he has steadily improved on his blocking and throwing as the year has progressed.

“He’s made huge strides from the beginning of this year,” Meccage said about Jhang. “The first month, he was just getting used to this level and the speed of the game. The last three months, I’d put him up against anybody. I’m excited for this opportunity for Jhang and our pitchers, because he can handle them as well as anybody.”

Jhang told me that he feels he has improved greatly at blocking and receiving behind the plate, noting that he has been able to get quality early work in at the ballpark. His throws to the bases have improved, as well, saying that he has worked exclusively with former catcher and current Pirates Field Coordinator Tom Prince on his footwork.

“I’m just trying to use my legs for better footwork,” Jhang said. “I talk to [Tom] Prince, and he teaches me the little things.”

Those little things include a more fluid transition from his catcher’s squat to a throwing position, as Jhang said he used to jump to his feet to try throwing out batters.

“Early in this season I would jump,” he said. “Now, I know how to use my legs.”

From an offensive standpoint, Jhang says that he has worked on having better pitch selection, not being afraid to swing aggressively at strikes when he sees them early in the count.

Overall, the transition from McGuire to Jhang may seem difficult at first, but the Altoona coaching staff feels that Jhang will be able to take the baton and run with it now.

“We’re going to miss Reese obviously, but we feel very good about Johnny,” Meccage said.

Meccage went on to say that the move did surprise him and wished McGuire the best of luck moving forward.

“Hopefully it makes the organization better and puts them in a position to be in a better spot,” he said. “I wish Reese nothing but the best, because he’s going to have a very good career.”

Cora says that it’s all business moving forward.

“I think in a day or two, they are going to forget about that relationship [with McGuire] and love Jhang,” Cora said about the pitching staff. “That’s baseball. That’s how it goes. Obviously, it’s a shock because nobody expected it. The first day is a little surprising, but once you start playing the game, nobody is thinking about Ramirez and Reese during the game. That’s the way it goes in baseball. It’s a business, and that’s the way it goes.”

Even with moves that seem confusing or irrational, everyone has to move forward. The Altoona staff, and the Pirates’ minor league system as a whole, will now move forward without Reese McGuire and with Jin-De Jhang as one of their better catching prospects.

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This was a salary dump, nothing more, nothing less. There was a choice here, to trade Liriano and pay his salary in part or in full without giving away two prospects. But no, this team always goes on the cheap. The fact that they would give away possibly the best defensive catcher in the minor leagues just to avoid paying out money for Liriano says a lot about how they are actually operating. There’s a word for it and it’s CHEAP.


Irrational is one way to describe trading Reese Maguire.

Stupid is another.


Good article Son of Cool.


I didn’t really like the McGuire trade either but leefoo’s comment below (somewhere) got me thinking – what is a “scarce asset” like McGuire worth?

So follow me for a second before yelling at me:
1. Assume that Liriano was a league average player at this point (0 WAR)
2. Assume that the actual “trade” was Ramirez for Hutchison … Meaning we sold McGuire for $18 million.
3. Assume that McGuire could be considered as a 2016 draft class college junior (Tim postulated this in an earlier article would.

Using the old draft rules, would we have offered him the largest signing bonus ever at $18 million to sign? If not, why wasn’t this a good deal?

If not, then isn’t the right thing to do to sell him for that amount?


because he’s already at AA at age 21 and holding his own. There would unlikely to be in the next ten years, a catcher as polished as Reese mcGuire is right now, coming out of the draft. We would never pay 18 million to anyone. The real question should be………..would any reasonable team give up Reese for 18 million dollars, and i don’t think many major league teams would have. 1) because teams whom wouldn’t value reese’s ability as a prospect probably aren’t money conscious anyways and 2) teams rebuilding their farms with prospects would never sell an asset like this in order to dump salary. I wish we could just turn back the clock and tie up Neil and throw him in a closet until the deadline passed….

joe s

Didn’t realize that once reese was traded that Jhang was his equal or actually better then him. What a surprise. See fans it was all a bunch of shit about how good Reese was, he was replaced by Jhang who is just as good. If we only knew this before hand, then we would of been thankful that Jhang was not traded and we had to keep the disappointing Reese.

Tim Williams

“Didn’t realize that once reese was traded that Jhang was his equal or actually better then him.”

When have we ever said this?

IC Bob

Plus we ahve so much depth at the position that we really do not need another catcher according to NH. Heck we got Fryer, Katz if we want him back. I bet we could even get Barrios if we give him a call. Who needs Maguire


Jhang is a better hitter than McGuire, and apparently just reached the same galaxy as M defensively. Did not Tim say no way Jhang makes the top 20 this season?

Eric Marshall

I hear you Joe. Nothing but a bunch of propaganda pieces to cover Management’s complete bungling of this season.


Has Jhang lost any weight?

dr dng

Any further rumors on who is going to the Yankees?

Any idea why its taking so long.

What type/level of player(s) do we owe them?

Any further word on how Tim is doing?

Tim Williams

You’ll know when the PTBNL info is out, because it will be on the site.

How I’m doing? Was there something I missed?


Maybe they should just let the Yankees have Elias Diaz. Who neds catching depth anyway?

dr dng

I posted that after the McGuire trade that you had gone
through your entire stock of craft beers and you were
relegated to drinking Bud Light.

Tim Williams

Oh. I didn’t even see that, because I was on the road for two days driving up to Morgantown for two and a half weeks of lower level coverage. All of my craft beers are at home.

dr dng

Are you in Morgantown on Saturday and Sunday?
Might just drive down to see the Bears, and shake your
hand to thank you for your work on the site.

Tim Williams

I’m here through Sunday.


Tim, I have been writing you for sometime on Jin-De Jhang as nothing has been written about him and he is not in your 20 rating on prospects.
Sean McCool came through great on Jhang. His language ability etc. I am familiar with Taiwan as young people speak English better than South Koreans as English is taught in their schools. Also baseball is very popular in Taiwan.
Bet after McCool’s write up you will be putting Jhang into top 20 prospects.
Over and Out…..

Eric Marshall

the prospect rankings are all a joke you see. McGuire and Ramirez were really never very good. They can be easily replaced and weren’t worth much at all. Here let’s pull this guy who isn’t highly regarded and say he is better now and how excited everyone is to have him.

Tim Williams

Can you imagine if we actually said this? It would warrant you repeatedly saying that we put out propaganda.

I guess if you’re going to make up positions for us, then actually believe them, then it would make sense for you to believe we’re putting out propaganda.


Prospect values rise and fall constantly. Both McGuire & Ramirez had been downgraded by numerous publications this season as M continued not to hit, and R lost some if his speed and power.


ramirez never had power, he is a gap hitter with exceptional hitting ability for average. he can outhit anyone on the major league team right now, just can’t do much else

IC Bob

Well the rankings came out two weeks ago I did not know Maguire had been so awful the last two weeks. 260s for a catcher is also pretty decent and being 21 years old at AA I would suspect he would develop some power. I never expected him to be Piazza at the plate. As for Ramirez Pirates gave him quite the signing bonus and being a top 5 hitter in the Fl state league and the Eastern league the last two years is impressive in my book. I am not sure why so many here think he can’t change his body as a 21 year old either. I would rather have a guy showing potential then a guy who looks great in BP.

Eric Marshall

Thank you IC Bob. Love the revisionist apologists sighting newly minted ratings. Our very own just came out and guess what… they didn’t change much. Everyone should quit falling all over each other to try and justify this trade. It sucks plain and simple. There is no positive spin. Hutch isn’t a prospect, wasn’t going to get to arbitration over the winter and won’t be with the Pirates after next year… because he will need to be paid much more than 2.2m current salary for meager AAAA performance you know we don’t pay for performance… Liriano and Burnette and Happ should tell you this up front.

Tim Williams

We actually had an article for Jhang planned last month, but then he went up to Indianapolis, and we weren’t sure if he was going back. So we held the article until we saw what would happen with him. Then this trade happened.

He won’t be in our top 20 though. All of the information in Sean’s article was information we knew when doing the rankings.


He’s a dr, he thinks everyone is sick…


From MLB Trade Rumors:

“Cashman also said he has a list of Pirates prospects at the lower levels of their system from which he’ll select a pair of players to be named later in order to complete the Ivan Nova trade, but they’re still in the process of evaluating their options.”


One other note. And I have no source or data to say this is included in the deal, but I do know in the past there have been trades like this that had performance conditions for example. IF Nova was to pitch 10 games and have an 8-2 record with a 1.79 ERA and resign for another year with the Pirates that the second player may come from a higher pool. So it may be 1 player from Pool A and 1 from Pool B but could switch to 2 Players from Pool A. Again no source to say that is the case here but that has happened before (can’t reference the example I just remember them talking about it once on MLB Network).


It most likely will not be announced until after the Minor League season is over. I would look at the AJ Burnett deal for what type of players will be moving (so most likely at highest a Rule V guy we had no plan to protect).
Tim is alive last I heard.


I hope the Burnett deal isn’t the equivalent, since they had 2 years of AJ and only 2 months of Nova……

I wonder if “Fantasy” will be Nova’s entrance music…..


Not an equivalent but just a reference for the deal. It would be less because AJ had years left too and they also paid his salary for those years but. Just a reference.


Pretty glowing endorsements of Jhang, and surely his development made them more comfortable trading McGuire. OTOH, if Meccage is right about McGuire having a very good career, then we probably didn’t get enough in return for him.

And thanks for explaining why it took so long for McGuire’s name to come out. I think that delay increased the angst of fans who had felt okay about Liriano and Ramirez being moved.

Bill W

Sean isn’t “Johnny” like 5’2″?

ajax2448 has him listed at 5’11”


Cora: “good catchers in the big leagues are very scarce, and he could easily be one of them.”

And yet we decided that saving $17 mil was worth more than this scarce asset.

Totally deplorable. 3 days later and I am still upset.


I wish i could upvote this 100000 times, print it out as a leaflet, and use it to wallpaper Neil’s house, his car, and his cat.


Don’t forget that the gift of Ramirez and McGuire for table scraps was done to provide the Pirates with the coveted ” financial flexibility.”

The problem is is that in Pirate-speak, ” financial flexibility” is another way of saying ” What we will do to save money in order to pay future arbitration related raises and still stay within our Nutting-imposed salary-cap.”

The simple fact of the matter is the Pirates tie one hand behind their backs and tie their shoelaces together by imposing their own salary-cap in a game lacking. Nutting never was and never will be interested in trying to compete when it comes to spending money even though the Liriano and ( below market) Cervelli signings were hyped as disproving that. We saw how that played out with Liriano, and now just have to wait for something similar regarding Cervelli down the road.

alex w

I guess you think that Nutting should be a businessman that is so enchanted with his baseball team that he is willing to lose money on a yearly basis, perhaps like the owner of the Tigers does. Few business men want to lose money and most desire a profit. Nutting is not the issue. The issue is that the Pirates have the least profitable local tv market of all 30 teams and that is not going to change. Local tv is the source of money for the teams that can spend. Thus the problem is that local tv revenues are not shared enough and some teams like the Pirates have a very limited budget, while others like the Dodgers have a virtually unlimited budget. If the Steelers and Packers competed in the NFL with the conditions the Pirates face there would be no Super Bowl trophies in either local.

Eric Marshall

MLB is certainly not an even playing field. The issue i have with management are the following:

1 – They aren’t open with their books and revenue numbers… not hard to understand why they wouldn’t be but given the market and funding for the stadium they should be a little more transparent.
2 – They are most certainly not losing money and can support a factor of magnitude more in terms of team payroll spending… that being said they shouldn’t be forced to only make x amount but hopefully the fans vote with their pocketbooks that this activity is highly unsatisfactory.
3 – Huntington came out and said our TV deal was very good but would not elaborate. I guess he was once again blowing smoke up his fanbase collective arses.

alex w

The only pro sports team that I have heard that opens its financial records to the public is the Packers – and it is community owned. Revenue for the Pirates is at the low end in baseball,l even when the stands are full and when discounting local tv money. I suggest that you look at attendance figures and the fact that some teams charge much more for every seat they sell. The fact is that local tv deals are based on the viewership – and in the case of the Pirates there are so few people living within a decent distance to PNC park fewer people are available for tv viewership. Huntington might have meant that the Pirate tv deal is ok given the local circumstances, but it is so inferior to teams like the Yankees, diamondbacks, giants, dodgers, etc. etc.


Don’t agree AlexW. Nutting IS THE PROBLEM.

You criticize the Tiger owner but the Pirates need an “owner willing to lose money” since we are a ‘small market’ team. We need Mark Cuban (from Pittsburgh originally) who is willing to spend money on his Dallas Mavericks. The Pirates have a potential dynasty developing with a talented young pool of players. But Nutting is screwing it up with his stupid salary dumping trades. I understand Sean McCool’s account of the Altoona players wondering ‘whose next’ after losing McGuire and Ramirez.

That said, who will be next?

alex w

May I clarify? I have never been critical of the Tigers owner – just think he is one of kind that is not found among most owners of pro sport teams. I think the Pirates have amazing leadership given the immensely unfair financial situation they face. This includes the owner who pumped much money into player development facilities and bonuses that has led to the Pirates having a very strong farm system – the teams only hope to compete in the short and long run. The leadership decisions have become a model for many other teams – including the “blessed” financial ones. As they catch up to the Pirates, it will be hard for the Pirates to remain competitive. Nothing is more important than the decisions that will be forthcoming in the next labor agreement with the players. Nutting must vote against any agreement that does not help the teams with little chance of securing high end local tv deals – and the Pitrates have zero chance of doing that given the small number of people who live within 150 miles of PNC park and are not in the Cleveland or Cincinnati tv zones.


He could also never make it. Eric Longenhagen wrote an article on this at Fangraphs.


The key to how this trade is viewed, as David Todd has pointed out, is what one thinks of McGuire. When I read Longenhagen’s report and Craig Goldstein’s report at BP (“the likelihood remains a player who makes his bones on defense who might not kill you in the bottom third of a lineup”), I started thinking that McGuire’s prospect status may have peaked. Of course others, including PP, have a much higher view. In the end this decision will be a very good measure of how well our front office evaluates our prospects, which is one of the most important qualities of a good front office.


I read that the other day. I don’t think he’ll ever be an All Star, but I think he will become a valuable commodity and might even become a quality regular.

I bet he lasts longers in the big than Hutchison. 🙂


I think he will. There are very few good catchers in MLB. Reese is only worse defensively than about 4 starters right now in the majors, and hes like 21 in AA. He can out throw about 90% of them…..offensively, Yadier couldn’t hit for years, salvador didn’t hit well either……that comes with time. Reese doesn’t need to show he can hit now, he’s got about 5 years before anyone really expects him to hit


NOW FOO!!! What are you going to do if Hutch becomes Jake 2.0???? LOL I am simply asking not saying I think it will happen and again just messing with you to keep your heart rate down or maybe this will get your heart rate up I get those confused. 🙂


if he becomes jake arrieta the 2nd, then its the blindest squirrel finding the biggest nut in the deepest darkest hole ever dug


Btw, McGuire’s ceiling, to me, and I mentioned it a few times, is Spanky. Lavalliere was never supposed to hit enough and didn’t have any power, but he had bat control.

Blaine Huff

If you’re talking about just his years with the Pirates, I could see that…but that’s also a .280 hitter with and OPS higher than league average…and that’s not too shabby…especially from a catcher.

But, I think his bat has the potential to get better in time. I don’t ever view him a power hitter, but I think Reese will progress…at least to the point where he doesn’t have to be platooned as LaValliere was.

So, I see his ceiling as a low-power, decent average/OPS catcher with stellar defense.


He could be Joe Mauer- only had one year with more than 15 homers….usually under 10…..can definitely be a kid that hits. 300

Jim G

Looks like Reese will be the heir apparent to Russ after all. Hope he has a great career and is a future all star with the Jays.

Bill W

You guys forget Eric Kratz is still available.


at worst, he’ll be a LH Chris Stewart, at best, Spanky. I still can’t believe that we made this trade. If, as Cora said, “good catchers are scarce”, we couldn’t get more than a AAAA pitcher who has never succeeded at the MLB level over 3 years??

And, I still think that Hutchison was thrown into the deal not unlike David Whitehead was thrown into the Morton deal. Just to make it look like a “real baseball” deal.


no….at best he’s a lefty yadier molina


To say Hutchison has never succeeded in MLB isn’t accurate. In 2014 he had 2.3 fWAR which was equivalent to Cole’s fWAR that year and better than every other member of the Pirates’ staff (Liriano was 2nd among our starters with 1.8 fWAR).

Last year Hutchison earned 1.5 fWAR, which would have placed him just behind Locke (1.6 fWAR) and deserving of a spot in our rotation (Happ remarkably earned 2.1 fWAR after he came in to replace A.J. (2.8 fWAR)).

So each of the last two years he would have upgraded our rotation, and hopefully that will be the case next year.


You can’t make a solid argument by cherry picking stats like this. That same year, Jon Neise also put up a 2.3 WAR. Wouldnt you then have to argue that they shouldn’t have traded him then because some obscure stat 2 years ago says that he was as good as Gerrit Cole. That fact of the matter is that since that year Hutchison got worse not better. He’s a bad player right now


That’s why I liked the Walker-Niese deal at the time because I thought Walker was worth the chance of getting Niese back to his 2014 form. Unfortunately that didn’t happen, but it was still worth the chance.


So what youre telling is is that 138 innings of Gerrit Cole in his first full season is worth the same as 184 innings of Drew Hutchison in his 3rd year.


You know I’m not saying that. All I’m saying is that Hutchison has had some success at the MLB level, contrary to what the original post said. It of course remains to be seen whether he can find that success again.


Jose Tabata had some level of success at the MLB level too. That’s not too high of a ceiling to reach. And to be honest, WAR isn’t a perfect stat and a WAR around 2 isn’t much to write home about. I hope I’m wrong about Hutch, but it’s my belief that when you pay that much for a guy, he needs to be better than a 2 WAR player and that player needs to make an impact immediately


There are a lot of variables here. How much did we really pay after factoring in the salary relief from Liriano? That depends on how one values McGuire which is the biggest unknown in this deal. And if you believe WAR measures anything close to reality, then you’re underestimating how hard it is to fill a rotation with pitchers who earn 2 WAR.

Anyway, again, all I’m saying is that he’s had success (as another example, he ranked 8th in K/9 out of 39 qualified starters in the AL in 2014). We can be skeptical as to whether he’ll upgrade next year’s rotation, but saying he’s never had any success isn’t a fair evaluation of what he’s done.


it doesn’t matter. you can’t quantify a catcher of Reese’s age and defensive ability. It really doesn’t exist…..anywhere. Even if you are trading Reese for the entire 15 million you are saving all by himself, its still a horrid baseball trade. you can’t get the type of young talent for 15 million that you just gave away at the catchers position, you just can’t


Actually we do know how much. We can compare their value to similar trades involving similar players. Just off the top of my head, I think of Wandy Rodriguez, a solid lefty at the time of the deal. It cost us Robbie Grossman and Rudy Owens if memory serves. Neither were great prospects, but good ones with tools. Grossman was in the top 100 I think, similar to both Ramirez and McGuire depending on which list you look at. So that’s what I expect to get for those two, a middle of the rotation starter with a good bit of upside.

I disagree that Hutch has had success. I see an ERA in the mid 4s or worse every year of his career. He can’t keep runs off the board. And no stat from 2 years ago changes that. I think that is fair too. You’ve cherry picked these stats. So saying that he’s had success because you’ve decided that a 2.3 WAR is good isn’t exactly fair either.

IC Bob

The fact that Locke earned a 1.6 tells me fWAR is not a good measurement for pitchers


Well Locke in 2014 earned 0.3 fWAR, which is what he’s earned so far this year–does that make you feel better? Last year he wasn’t that bad.


Do you really miss Charlie foo??? LOL!!! I am trying to make you smile. I will buy you a beer when we go to the Curve game.


I don’t drink beer, but I do eat Spot Dogs. 🙂

I don’t miss charlie one bit and I 100% agreed with that deal because we didn’t give up any valuable assets.


OK, I’ll buy ya a spot dog… 🙂
Although the beer does help get over the trades quicker. LOL
I don’t miss him either. If I heard the comparison to Halladay one more time.


Bob Halladay?


Roy Halladay.


Roy? Really??? 🙂 🙂 🙂

That went over your head, didn’t it? 🙂


YES!!! 🙁


Agree that it wasn’t a good deal. But it’s beyond silly to suggest Hutchison is anything like Whitehead. He is a legitimately good prospect, who has been very good in AAA. If he qualified for the Pirates prospect list, he would be around #10 . Whitehead, otoh, is not close to #110 .

Eric Marshall

Only he isn’t a prospect given he has had plenty of time in the majors to work out his issues and he failed. If Frankie was in AAA… what do you think his stats would be? Even if he was considered a prospect it doesn’t stand to figure you given up 2 top 10’s for someone who may rank at 10.


Don’t think he was comparing their talents I think he was comparing the deals in their similar intent…had nothing to do with the guys themselves.


Yeah if you compare Charlie to Liriano you might find a 10 to 110 comparison too. 🙂

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