Jon Heyman had a list of first base possibilities for the Miami Marlins, with Pedro Alvarez being one of four names on the list.
from last night: marlins 1b possibilities have included justin morneau, mark trumbo, pedro alvarez, michael morse
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 11, 2014
Alvarez is currently the first base option for the Pirates, and if they traded him, they would need to find a replacement. They could obviously go with one of the names on that list, but a deal wouldn’t make sense. Their MLB roster looks pretty set at this point. They could add a starting pitcher, but there is less of a need for that with the additions of Francisco Liriano and A.J. Burnett. Every starting position is set. The bullpen and bench look to be coming together.
The only way an Alvarez deal would make sense would be if the Pirates just liked someone else better than Alvarez, and/or felt that a trade and then adding a replacement would make them better overall. There have been rumors that the Pirates have been shopping him this off-season, so that theory isn’t far-fetched.
Tim started Pirates Prospects in 2009 from his home in Virginia, which was 40 minutes from where Pedro Alvarez made his pro debut in Lynchburg. That year, the Lynchburg Hillcats won the Carolina League championship, and Pirates Prospects was born from Tim's reporting along the way. The site has grown over the years to include many more writers, and Tim has gone on to become a credentialed MLB reporter, producing Pirates Prospects each year, and will publish his 11th Prospect Guide this offseason. He has also served as the Pittsburgh Pirates correspondent for Baseball America since 2019. Behind the scenes, Tim is an avid music lover, and most of the money he gets paid to run this site goes to vinyl records.
Ok. So a friend of mine said he heard from his cuz’s girlfriends dad that there’s talk of a pedro for kennedy trade.. has anyone heard that at all? Seems it’s more lopsided then the one with miami
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That pedro will be traded is a given, the question is when.
With all the craziness at this year’s winter meeting, next year might be crazier. 1st tier starters: Cueto, Price, JZimmerman, Greinke; 2nd tier: Latos, Leake, Kazmir, Fister, Shark, Gallardo, Porcello, Kennedy, Simon. Plus a bunch of old guys like Lackey, Dickey, Hudson, Lohse, Buerhle… that’s a lot of pitching.
The marlinsvaren’t giving up Alvarez he there #2 but Eovaldi is a possibility and he isn’t far behind,we may actually have to throw something else in to land him in that deal. Maybe Garcia or something like that
fwiw, Tom Singer finally got back to me. I asked him when this Pedro-Eovaldi thing first came up and he replied: “On the first day of the Meetings, then it faded as Marlins set their target on Morneau.”
Btw, I would have loved to hear the Rox GM tell Miami, “Well, yeah, we could’ve dealt, but you gave all the guys we really wanted to LA for Dee F*ck*ng Gordon.”
So you’re saying there’s a chance…….
I’m not saying anything, lol. But what the heck, might as well go to the source on something like this. And that’s what his tweet back to me said.
Trade Alvarez for a right-handed set-up man and another reliever. Danny Farquhar of the Mariners would do. And sign free agent Michael Morse to be the every day 1B. His 2014 and career OPS against left-handers and right-handers are all over .800.
Morse really? Does not walk, fans a ton, bad fielder, bad base runner. Hits one ball a week a long way
Michael Morse as everyday 1B? Did I hear that correctly? Between him and Walker they could run a contest – who stays healthier.
Morse’s games played
2005 – 72
2006-2010 – Never more than 35 in a season
2011 – 146
2012 – 102
2013 – 88
2014 – 131
Who is going to play 1B for the 60 games that Morse misses next season?
That would be the perfect christmas present, pedro somewhere else.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Andre Ethier can play first base?
Oh my god now we are floating Andre Ethier over a the 2013 home run leader?!
Dumbest. Thread. Ever.
(Though I did read the whole thing and post so what does that make me)
None of us are GMs. This site is for information and entertainment purposes. And you just got entertained.
If Heyman is not just making things up, like usual, I would do this deal and then try to trade for Morneau or another first base option. But, the danger is if you do this deal then you MUST deal for another first baseman. Rival GMs will know this, which will probably drive up the cost. Get the first base option first.
Good Idea, go get a real 1st basemen, otherwise the price goes up.
If there were a cheaper/better 1b then pedro, why wouldn’t the marlins just go get him
Name me a “real” first basemen that is rumored to be available?
Jon Heyman is the only baseball writer I legitimately think makes stuff up.
So Brink tweeted that there is some Miami interest in Pedro, but not for Eovaldi.
Previous report from Bill Baer implied Fish would make available Chisek, Dunn, Crow, all going into 2nd year arb. Chisek would be a good get, but not for Pedro. And now with Bastardo, there’s no room unless you deal Hughes. Not sure if Crow really is available as rumor was Fish were thinking about reverting him back to a starter in ST.
I don’t get why the Marlins would want Pedro (left handed power bat) at 1B when they have Jones (left handed power bat). Both strike out a ton and get fooled on offspeed pitches away. I would say that Pedro is better defensively despite the throwing issues.
Would YOU rather have Garrett Jones than Pedro Alvarez?
To play 1B, there isn’t a whole lot of difference between them. If the Marlins are looking for a utility infielder – play some 1B, play some 3B, DH against AL teams – then it makes sense.
Alvarez is a better runner, hitter, and fielder than Jones.
Alvarez > Jones all day. Keep it real, people.
Jones never could master the “dont throw the ball right down the line to 2B” idea.
I am not sure that Alvarez will be much better in that regard, Alvarez throws right handed. It is a tougher throw for a right hander from 1st to 2nd because of the slight arc a runner takes rounding the bases.
Pedro is able to step 2 feet and then throw, something Jones apparently did not enjoy. Pedro is a much better overall fielder than Jones ever was, and the throw is not difficult, no more so than turning a double play from 3rd to 2nd.
I would make the trade Alvarez for Eovaldi, then trade for an established 1st baseman. The time to experiment is over in Pittsburgh, 1st base is a hole, has been a hole, now is the time to fix it, then all positions are covered going into ST.
I like Pedro, but this team went down the stretch in Sept. without him and the results were terrific. Playing musical chairs with players to cover positions is not necessary on this team.
The market doest make “trade for an established 1Bmen” near as easy as it sounds. Trading Pedro for a decent return is fine, but it likely ends with us going with a less proven option. As it stands right now, Mike Morse is the most solid option, and that is hardle established.
San Franciso 8, Pirates 0
Not to say that Pedro would have hit Bumgarner very well.
What does San Francisco 8, Pirates 0 got to do with it?
Nobody hit Bumgarner in the playoffs, the 27 Yankees might not have hit him.
The headline to this article is sure to get the anti-Pedro crowd salivating like a bulldog over a bowl of puppy chow. If the Pirates do in fact trade Alvarez before the season we can be sure Pedro has pushed back on the plan to play 1B. Simply put his trade value is deflated and the market of available 1B is weak. Not exactly the ideal market conditions for trades of this nature.
How about the Pirates just sign Morse and deal Alvarez and call it an offseason?
Then who plays 1B in May?
That would be Morse.
Or June, or July, or any of the 50-60 games that Morse will miss because of injury.
Charley W has jumped into the Pedro/Eovaldi fun
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2014/12/11/7378195/pirates-rumors-bucs-marlins-could-discuss-trading-pedro-alvarez
Tim, they are saying Alvarez for Eovoldi… I don’t get why the Pirates would make such a move? I understand Alvarez had a down year but Eovoldi is what, a number 3 starter in the majors potentially. I rather go after someone else!
Again i ask, is “they” based purely on the Singer tweet? Every publication running with this is using Singer as the source, and reading his tweet shows nothing in terms of a real inside source. Singer basically tweeted “this would make sense now if they start talking”.
yep…probably just rumor and ‘talk’, but, if it gets us talking about ‘what-ifs’, then that is half the fun? 🙂 🙂 🙂
I am just amazed at the level it exploded. I expected about half this excitement with a smattering of “well, it is Singer so…”. Doesnt take much lol.
I’m with you on “well, it is Singer so…”.
But, I’d LOVE to see it happen.
Trade for Eovaldi and sign Morneau?
It is hard to tell what Pedro is worth because no one knows what he is other than a 3rd basemen. he is not a 1st basemen other than the fact somebody or somebodies say he is. He can’t play there for a week and be pronounced a 1st basemen. Pronouncing him a 1st basemen is like saying the Steelers are going into next season with a linebacker as a QB because he threw some 50 yd. passes in practice and they don’t want to pay big Ben.
I would be shocked if the Marlins or anyone else gives the Pirates much for Alvarez because the only value he has is a bat, seems to me that an American league club would be the best fit for him.
You really enjoy digging your hole deeper on this one, don’t you?
Maybe the Pirates can field a shift that we don’t need a 1B!!! I would hate that trade unless a 1B is coming back in another trade. I hate not seeing the big picture.
I think that is called the Bugs Bunny defensive alignment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAzD83dgkQg&index=6&list=PL9yPYeXSCFm0XvdwoXO4KJBgk7K7_JGw9
Oh wait. Bugs did man first base.
How about this:
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/graphic-the-dutch-teams-innovative-defensive-alignment/
Shortstop – Xander Bogaerts
Shortstop – Jurickson Profar
Shortstop – Johnathan Schoop
Shortstop – Andrelton Simmons
Catcher – Kieboom
First Base – Jones
Maybe the Pirates are looking at this all wrong. Instead of trading Alvarez, they should trade Walker and Harrison for Starlin Castro and Alexei Ramirez.
Ya. i don’t think anyone would advocate going in with Lambo as the only guy.
It would have to be a trade for a proven guy.
Eovaldi would not be a sufficient return. He is a below average major league pitcher. He has a plus fastball, an average at best second pitch and no third pitch. Hes destined for the bullpen on a good team
And Pedro is? a third basemen that can’t throw, a first basemen in name only, look at it the way another team is going to look at it.
Another team has professionals that understand how easy it is to convert a 3B to 1B.
Your argument is hilarious.
Eovaldi is a legitimate #3 starter. His worst season was league average.
His era+ this year was 87, he was literally 13% below average. On a side note, I don’t understand how his FIP was so good, since league average OPS was .700 and he allowed .732.
I see I totally misread Darkstone42’s post. I thought he was intimating that Eovaldi has been league average.
Pls ignore everything I have written below…..😄😄😄😄
I’ll blame my misread on old age.
Don’t ya wish there was a delete option. Lol.. I do that all the time
Well..there IS an edit button. lol
I feel like Gilda Radnor’s old character Roseanne Roseannadanna sometimes…..”Nevermind”.
Sounds like Jeff Locke the last two years?
With vastly better periphs, throws harder, and has been able to throw more innings.
Locke has been equal to a replacement level pitcher.
I agree on the peripheals, but on everything else, there hasn’t been much difference.
However, I am NOT saying that Eovaldi DOESN’T have more talent nor am I saying I wouldn’t want him.
And Eovaldi was a 3 WAR guy last year, and a 1 WAR guy over his entire career. Locke is replacement level, Eovaldi is better than replacement level. Im not trying to dislike Locke, just pointing out that Eovaldi has been better nearly every year than Locke. One also would suspect that his numbers would improve in a more friendly pitchers park and on a team that basically craves his GB heavy approach. Our defense would make him look better than he already has been.
As I noted above, I misread Darkstone’s orig post. Had I not been so lazy and had actually looked up Eovaldi’s stats, I never would’ve posted what I did.
I HATE when that happens. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Yeah, but other than that…lol
Pedro is going to be a great player (I don’t know when)
I have come to despise Pedro’s ability as a player and just want him gone.
But because I am such a bad evaluator of talent it only stands to reason that I would be totally wrong again and Pedro will emerge as a HOFer ,
Pedro is and always will be a LH Mark Reynolds.
And what is wrong with that? 1.6 WAR in just over 400 ABs last year
Good for at least 20 HRs if he gets 400+ PAs
Yes he strikes out a lot – but that is the new normal.
A plus defender at both 1st and 3rd
Apparently Reynolds is signing with the Cardinals so this is all purely hypothetical, but based on career numbers, a Pedro and Reynolds platoon would produce a .798 OPS and 33 home runs.
Almost spit out my coffee reading that last sentence…
Reynolds is now a distant 2nd in most throwing errors in a single season. (Stat only kept since 2002)
Lofty territory.
Mark Reynolds is a plus defender at both positions, is what he is referring to.
And that’s what I was laughing at. Mark Reynolds has been a absolute butcher at both positions.
🙂 I guess defending in Baseball is like defending in Hockey, don’t let the ball / puck get by you. If Pedro would have been playing first last year, he might have won a gold glove (2 non-throwing errors).
If a Pedro for Eovaldi swap goes through, the heck with moving Walker to 2nd. Go big. Make an offer for Goldschmidt the Dbags can’t refuse.
There aren’t a lot of times it makes little sense to deal top propsects. But for 5 years of control of Goldy at reasonable cost, this would be one of those times. AZ isn’t going to be decent for awhile.
There is no offer for Goldschmidt that they can’t refuse. His trade value is top 5 in all of baseball. That is like saying heck, offer the Pirates a trade for McCutchen they can’t refuse.
I would actually consider a Cutch for Goldschmidt trade – would want the D’Backs to add a couple more pieces. But if you can’t compete in the real world of today’s market – this gets you a quality guy who you have surplus value – in exchange for surplus value.
You then can make your outfield defense much better by putt Marte in Center – Polanco on Left and and Snider in right.
Not a terrible idea, particularly if they think Marte turned a corner with his hitting. It’d mean Snider needs to continue his pace from late last year, but does increase years of control over a scary hitter.
Lol… you’re gonna get beat up for that one lonley..
No, it’s not in reality, because the Pirates are win now mode, so trading Cutch isn’t an option. AZ is not, and nowhere even remotely close. Think of it this way – it’s closer in philosophy to the Bucs trading Bay. Bucs didn’t really make out in that deal, but they weren’t going anywhere, so they took their most valuable player and cashed in. And look where we are now.
If AZ was going to go the Marlins route and build around Goldy like Fish are building around Stanton, that would be different. But they’re not.
Yeah, since the team isnt in line to contend they should sell a top 5 value player in baseball for “enough”. Makes total sense. You also seem to assume ARI thinks it is not going to contend at any point during the Goldy contract, which i guarantee they dont agree with.
You know who thinks small? Small people.
And I don’t mean dwarves.
I’m suggesting to make an offer. You don’t know what anyone is going to say no to until you ask.
Actually, you didnt say just try you expressed a want to make an offer they cant refuse. Which insinuates we go hard after him and make them an offer so nice they cant pass it up. Doing due diligence is inherently different from “Make an offer for Goldschmidt the Dbags can’t refuse.”
Maybe in your world. In sales it means “see where the customer stops automatically saying no”.
And with the people I grew up with, well it meant exactly what it did in the Godfather.
Parsing every bit of dialogue is also an unattractive trait.
Oh you find me unattractive? How will i live with myself, knowing that you continue to try to insult me every time i disagree with an opinion.
It’s not that you disagree, it’s HOW you disagree. I’m used to people disagreeing with me. That’s part of life.
The one issue with the trade is zona already has a somewhat crowded young outfield
Someone has to put butts in seats I suppose. Love the idea though
Goldschmidt will cost too much, and there are other guys out there who would be able to fit into our lineup nicely without costing our top five prospects. Votto’s contract and recent injuries would make him cheaper (still expensive, but cheaper), Chris Davis would be an upgrade over Pedro who could be had, probably, for Morton and some prospects I would guess, or something similar, Todd Frazier might be have-able, Napoli’s on the block, and Morse is a free agent.
Just think about it.
Here’s some of the math… in fact, the value is a bit less as this article was done mid-season, so Goldy is less half a year or 2 WAR.
http://blog.steelcitybuzz.com/2014/07/21/on-trading-for-1b-paul-goldschmidt-and-the-idea-of-surplus-value/
If the prospects are Bell (who would be in Goldy’s position anyway) and Kingham (would be expendable with Eovaldi and then Taillon/Glasnow/Sampson) and Marte… and you could talk AZ away from Marte towards other assets… what would you think then?
If Arizona took Bell and Kingham, or even Bell, Kingham, and just one of Glassnow, Taillon, and Sampson for Goldschmidt, they’d be insane.
That deal simply wouldn’t happen. At the very least, it would take every single player you mentioned, I would guess.
But if we could land Goldy for a package of Bell, Kingham, and one of Glasnow, Taillon, or Sampson, that would be a no-brainer for the Bucs.
It would be great, but I agree that it’s tough to find a scenario where the D-Backs trade Goldschmidt, even for our most high-end prospects. Trumbo would be interesting at the right price
It is nothing like the Bay situation. Bay had 1 year left on his contract on a bad team. Goldy is signed cheaply for 5 years. It ain’t happening, his surplus value would be our whole top 10 prospects. Even then, teams don’t trade young superstars under long term contracts for prospects only anymore.
GLasnow, Bell, Hanson, Snider, and Pedro get it done 🙂
So your response is “don’t try”. I see.
Votto? He’s become an expensive Ike Davis. I’d rather get Morneau back.
Votto will be getting 25 million a year.( for many years)
What planet will that happen on?
I would assume the Pirates would want the Reds to eat some of that salary if they make the trade, so he likely wouldn’t cost that much. Even so, with inflation, and as productive as Votto is year to year, $25 million won’t look too bad for most of those years.
And that “Votto just looks for walks” argument is stupid. He’s got a great eye and prefers to swing at pitches he can drive, which is why his ISO is always above average, why his line drive rates are consistently above 20%, and why he can typically hit for averages approaching .300 with power, get on base 40% of the time in down years, and, when healthy, is worth about 6 wins a season (market value for which, incidentally, approaches $40 million).
You make sense on the player, but again, even if Reds pay half of the deal……no way that type of money will be committed to that length of time to,a Pgh Pirate under this ownership group.
I don’t think we’ll do it, but it’s a more likely deal than trading for Goldschmidt. And there’s always the option of flipping Votto elsewhere, perhaps to a large market, in a season or two if we feel an internal option (Bell) is ready to take over.
Of the options I listed, though, I think Crush or Napoli would be the best and most reasonable.
Buccos opening day 1b.. travis snider.. heard it hear 1st : )
what makes you think he has the athleticism to play first, he’s built like a middle linebacker and he’s short
Because it’s travis snider.. of course he can play 1b… duh
So is Mike Napoli, but he somewhat surprisingly fields the position OK.
I have thought this from day one!!!!!
Free Pedro and move Walker and/or Snider to 1st – sign a good glove second baseman – Bonafacio?
no, move walker back to third and harrison to second. trade Snider for an extra groundskeeper
Joe Panik?
works for me.
Yes. Another for the Walker to first movement. It seems like a more realistic possibility now. S Rod could play second as well.
No way Bucs do this deal..They would need another 1st baseman in deal…..Like this page for more PIRATES news and updates>>>http://www.facebook.com/piratesscoop
Todd…I prefer http://pbc-asylum.blogspot.com/
It is everything Pirates, plus links and tweets to everything Pirates. It is one stop shopping.
In fact, we have been discussing this since we saw the tweet.
PIRATES SCOOP has all the news on one page as well..No tweets,but it’s great for a FAST check-in and comes up on Facebook newsfeed if you Follow page…Give it a look.
They don’t need a 1b coming back in a pedro trade. They could just… make another trade
…..and 3 way trades DO exist ya know.
Last night Pedro came up on XM Radio for the Giants as a replacement for Sandoval. I guess they all missed his yips throwing. Don’t know who could come back but interesting thought … lots of pitcher prospects.
Pedro for Joe Panik? Move Walker to 1B, Panik plays 2B? Have Polanco bulk up and move further down in the order to become a power bat. Lineup is Harrison, Panik, McCutchen, Walker / Polaco, Marte, Polanco / Walker, Mercer, Catcher, Pitcher.
Please Pedro for Belt. They could move Buster to first and play Pedro at third. I know this would never happen, but one can dream.
Belt is so much more valuable than pedro that it might take Glasnow to get that done
Who has the highest risk: Alvarez or Allen Craig? Flip Alvarez to Miami and then trade for Craig from Boston?
Have you seen Craig’s contract ? If Boston doesn’t eat a lot of it, you won’t see him in Pittsburgh.
Craig is terrible, his babip luck has evaporated and he is much older than most people think. no thanks.
And take a look at his contract.
Craig had a serious injury that really render him useless last year. The big issue is it could be chronic and make him ineffective this year as well. If he is over that injury and is deemed healthy, he is a really good player and he is also clutch player that I would take in a minute. That said its my understanding that he is not over the injury and that he may never be.
That was my thought as well. I’ve heard Nathan Eovaldi as a possible return from Miami.
Yeah, appparently Pedro for Eovaldi has been discussed before and they’re rumored to be revisiting that, according to MLBTR.
So, are there any reports that arent the Singer tweet that actually back up the notion that those two teams have actually revisited talks? Right now, i have seen Singer tweet something that wasnt based on inside knowledge but was more of a “well, this would make sense now” and everyone ran with it. Not that i dislike the trade idea, but it seems a ton of people are saying in a concrete way talks are happening after Singer tweeting.
The name of the site is MLB Trade RUMORS.
Which based the entire RUMOR off a tweet that in no way shows anything substantial. By that logic, anyone associated with any team that thinks something “could” happen is now proof that two teams are talking. Nowhere in the tweet does it say the teams are talking, or talks were revisited, or anything other than that at one part MIA expressed interest in multiple 1Bmen that included Pedro. My point being, that is about as flimsy a reason for people to run with an idea as possible, particularly when its expressed as if the teams are clearly discussing something.
You have an option of ignoring the rumor and not participating in the discussion. . Just sayin
Im not arguing the entire discussion is stupid, just pointing out that the majority of the thread is posting as if this is at least a solid rumor that could actually happen.
Very true.. I thought initially it was just a matter of when and not if.. sorta bummed cause I thought it would open a door for snider.. lol.. seeing how right field is now Polanco’s. And deservingly so
Yeah, Eovaldi gets a good number of ground balls, and the Pirates are aggressive with shifts (and have a better defensive outfield), so he’d probably have better luck in run prevention in Pittsburgh.
Shifts, yes. But the Fish have a decent defensive OF with Yelich, Ozuna and Stanton.
I would much rather have Henderson Alvarez than Nathan Eovaldi, I think, but Eovaldi wouldn’t be a bad return.
It would make some of our back-end pitchers expendable, maybe package Morton with a prospect for a guy like Chris Davis (basically just a better version of Alvarez), or we could go crazy and try to land Votto if the Reds are doing a true fire sale and deal one of our top pitching prospects.
Have you seen money owned Votto?
Bucs would be crazy to take that on.
Honest question: what do you think the difference is between Eovaldi and Henderson Alvarez?
I like Alvarez’s control and consistency better, plus he’s an extreme ground ball pitcher. Eovaldi’s stuff is probably better than Alvarez’s, though.
I would rather have Henderson Alvarez too, no doubt. I just don’t think Miami would do that.
Yeah, I imagine the Marlins would be hesitant there, but that’s where I’d be steering the conversation, especially if they really like Pedro.
Eovaldi would be an incredible return for Pedro
If this was 2013, maybe.
EDIT: Nevermind, I had Jacob Turner in mind. Yeah, Eovaldi would be prettay, prettay good.
lol i was gonna say…
also, i believe i spot a Larry David reference in there. Kudos.
Bingo!
Hey, where were you hiding all day during yesterday’s chaos?
And if this were 2013, Eovaldi wouldn’t be enough 🙂
Meetings in Philly…did I miss anything? 😉
Just lots and lots of posts. You were conspicuous by your absence.
I wonder if there’s any shot of the Red Sox going with Allen Craig at 1b to start off. I think Napoli would be a pretty ideal fit.
It would have to be a trade for a 1b if Alvarez gets dumped. I’m not sold on Morse. Steamer has him at a .750 OPS and 0.5 WAR. I’d probably just rather take a chance with Pedro than with Morse.
What are some 1b trade candidates who can possibly play every day?
“Candidates” may as well mean anyone after the last three days, eh?
Carlos Santana may be expendable with Moss and Swisher in the fold.
Brandon Belt can be had. Alvarez and Josh Bell would probably get it done.
I’m sure the Red Sox would trade Napoli, but don’t know why you’d want him.
3 years ago the thought of trading Alvarez and Bell would have been the end of the world. Now it doesn’t seem so bad. Lol. Just shows how unpredictable players can be
Alvarez for Alvarez would be a solid deal for us, I think.
Pedro for GI Jones and McGehee?
Don’t worry , Miami would never take that deal anyway !
McGehee has a reverse platoon split, despite being a righty he hits righties significantly better than lefties. Plus he was really a slightly below average player last year, his numbers inflated by RBI